Microfarad demotion request, #2

[monokr0me]

First of all, after finding a chatango exploit, several on chat including me went to a popular chat and posted the exploit several times. MF then joined said chat and warned us that he would ban us on the DBF chat if it continued. I replied with "I've posted porn before on external sites, so ban me motherf*cker". To which he replied 'ok, LOL' and banned me.
There was also an earlier account of when he banned priok for using proper grammar, saying he was 'trolling'. This being the latest of several incidents AFTER his temporary demotion, I am asking that it be made permanent.

NOTE: Although I do not have screenshots, several members who were on chat at the time can verify these, namely vertigo, Elmach, tempy, SoleilDeimos, and possibly Dhoom.

[microfarad]

He is fully accurate, though I would phrase it differently and offer some justification for my actions, which I believe were fully within the proper reach of my arm as a moderator. I can explain these justifications to any interested individuals, though I think posting them here would just lead to inane contentions on both sides.

Truth be told, if I were capable of it, I would permanently ban Monokr0me. Being somewhat politically savvy, this is not my advocacy. Rather, I would like to remind moderators of the flexibility of certain definitions such as a pest troll and trolling when they have a reason to ban such incessantly offensive characters such as Monokr0me. Can anyone think of a single good which he brings upon the chat? The entirety of his dialog is either highly polemical or dilatory, and serves no purpose to us.

[xShadowLordx]

I don't see what's the big deal about this. If you, Monokrome, did something on some other site--no matter how questionable it may have been--Microfarad was still out of his jurisdiction and had no grounds on which to justify banning you from the DBF chat.

[monokr0me]

May 10, 2011 4:51:38 GMT xShadowLordx said:

I don't see what's the big deal about this. If you, Monokrome, did something on some other site--no matter how questionable it may have been--Microfarad was still out of his jurisdiction and had no grounds on which to justify banning you from the DBF chat.

Which is exactly what I am saying. Furthermore, he insists on chat that the ban was for 'obvious trolling' to which nobody else agreed.

[xShadowLordx]

May 10, 2011 4:54:44 GMT monokr0me said:

May 10, 2011 4:51:38 GMT xShadowLordx said:

I don't see what's the big deal about this. If you, Monokrome, did something on some other site--no matter how questionable it may have been--Microfarad was still out of his jurisdiction and had no grounds on which to justify banning you from the DBF chat.

Which is exactly what I am saying. Furthermore, he insists on chat that the ban was for 'obvious trolling' to which nobody else agreed.

Ok. Mono is innocent. Problem solved.

Now, anybody wanna weigh in on MF's demotion?

[Qwerty]

Qwertyunlocked

Ha ha, nice editing trick TSL.

[xShadowLordx]

May 10, 2011 5:03:54 GMT Qwerty said:

Qwertyunlocked

Ha ha, nice editing trick TSL.

Wha- Huh? Editing trick? What editing trick? I dunno what your talking about.

[dhoom]

I support the demotion. His banning of Priok the other day proved his lack of ability to adapt to change, and therefore he can not operate in the ever-changing and advancing chat. On other occasions he has demonstrated similar behavior, and was punished, but I afraid it was not enough to get the message conveyed to him.

Demote him from chat.

[vaconcovat]

So, MF banned mono for things he did on other sites and called it trolling...?

[monokr0me]

May 10, 2011 5:28:01 GMT @vaconcovat said:

So, MF banned mono for things he did on other sites and called it trolling...?

Among other things, yes He called my reply to his warnings trolling and that was what the ban was for. See my previous thread for more examples of what he's done.

[microfarad]

I made a mistake. I'm not going to make a sappy apology or a big speech about how I was wrong. That would look like I'm covering my rear. I just want you to know that I know that I was wrong. That does not change the fact that I do not like Monokr0me, and it does not change the fact that the fact that he is not my favorite character had no impact on my decision in the first place. I almost did the same to Vertigo whom I admire greatly. But yes. I made a bad call.

Now you can all vote your hardest, but as I recall, voting never got me demoted or temporarily demoted. And I don't think it will. What it WOULD do is make me disinclined to those individuals who vote against me and that is generally counter-productive no matter what your goal is, because it is my firm belief that my goal as a moderator is to reduce controversy. Because I like a nice happy chat. And that is why I was wrong; because obviously what I did caused quite a lot of controversy. So call me a hypocrite because it doesn't work, but I tried to reduce dissonance through banning. I think now that the policy is rather flawed. Qwerty brought this to my attention.

Edit:
And whatever Mono says I did not ban him for things he did on other sites. That's ridiculous. I did threaten it, because he was really disturbing another chat, but I quickly realized that even my bluff was a bit abusive.

[nmagain]

I vote for MF to be permanently demoted and maybe even temporarily banned (3 days, more or less).
This isn't the first time he bans someone here for actions on another site, he also did that to me when I trolled Yonder's forum back in 2010.

And he's an overall bad moderator, he never did anything be be a mod anyway he just got his moderatorship because Listo liked him, and now since that Listo's gone MF deserves to be demoted.

[microfarad]

Yet I have become a moderator not once, but three times. First, under Listo, next, when we moved to the new forum, and finally after I wanted to come back from resigning. And NMagane, you can make as many unfounded accusations about how I don't follow due process as you like, but the fact of the matter remains that, for the most part, I do my job very diligently, and eventually end up correcting any mistakes I've made in one way or another.

[Alonso]

Micro Farad has been nice to me on chat.

[nmagain]

May 10, 2011 13:28:42 GMT microfarad said:

I do my job very diligently, and eventually end up correcting any mistakes I've made in one way or another.

that's a good joke right there

[D_M-01]

Now you can all vote your hardest, but as I recall, voting never got me demoted or temporarily demoted. And I don't think it will. What it WOULD do is make me disinclined to those individuals who vote against me and that is generally counter-productive no matter what your goal is, because it is my firm belief that my goal as a moderator is to reduce controversy.

Oh? You are rather sure of yourself, are you not?

Regardless of whether a user or users want to have your position as a staff member on the forum changed, being a staff member you should not have personal vendettas against said users in what could be labeled as 'favoring'. Your boastfulness to how proposals to the attempts of demoting you failing only shows how self-righteous you are and strengthens the opposing side's cause.

In addition, your behavior towards both user 'Priok' and other users on the chat, which I have witnessed, is fairly deemed as completely unacceptable.

Because I like a nice happy chat. And that is why I was wrong; because obviously what I did caused quite a lot of controversy. So call me a hypocrite because it doesn't work, but I tried to reduce dissonance through banning. I think now that the policy is rather flawed. Qwerty brought this to my attention.

The fact that you banned Priok for using proper grammar is appalling in itself. In no way shape or form could that be considered as trolling in any circumstance. Never have I seen such an unwise maneuver by a staff member for something so insignificant. It is you who had overcompensated for such a simple matter.

Truth be told, if I were capable of it, I would permanently ban Monokr0me. Being somewhat politically savvy, this is not my advocacy. Rather, I would like to remind moderators of the flexibility of certain definitions such as a pest troll and trolling when they have a reason to ban such incessantly offensive characters such as Monokr0me. Can anyone think of a single good which he brings upon the chat? The entirety of his dialog is either highly polemical or dilatory, and serves no purpose to us.

Well, that is a very appealing thing to say about a user in front of a general audience. Oh, and you also attempt to "remind moderators flexibility of certain definitions such as a pest troll" when you obviously have no understanding of what a pest troll is? I advise you to keep your personal opinion on banning users where only the staff can see it. Upon reading this, it is clear that you are biased against user 'Monokr0me'. He is a well-respected member, and as far as I can see he does not cause any problems. In fact, I see him as a lively addition to the forum's activity and a substantially active member. The only reason he acts in the manner you witnessed is because you provoked him to.

Based upon observation over the course of you being a chat moderator for some time, I can conclude that this has not been the only time you have been accused of misconduct on the chat. It has been the fourth time or perhaps even farther than that, and the second time you have been demoted from staff temporarily.

In my opinion, I feel that heavy consequences be invoked on this continuous behavior. It certainly has not been changed as far as to be acceptable behavior from a staff member of the Dan-Ball Forums.

[Alonso]

Well, he still helped me. Take that into acount.

[kuraikiba]

I'd say banning MF is extreme. Now, despite MF's history, I would say that Mono is not totally in the right. First off, Mono has quite a history of randomly resorting to verbal abuse for what appears to be virtually nonexistent reason.

Now, the chatango exploit DOES apply here, as it is clear some people are affected by it. I pretty easily can say I have been subject to its inanities. Considering Mono even admitted discovery and usage of said exploit, noting the fact it CAN affect us, it's no less viable an offense than one more direct.

[monokr0me]

May 11, 2011 20:29:56 GMT kuraikiba said:

I'd say banning MF is extreme. Now, despite MF's history, I would say that Mono is not totally in the right. First off, Mono has quite a history of randomly resorting to verbal abuse for what appears to be virtually nonexistent reason.

Now, the chatango exploit DOES apply here, as it is clear some people are affected by it. I pretty easily can say I have been subject to its inanities. Considering Mono even admitted discovery and usage of said exploit, noting the fact it CAN affect us, it's no less viable an offense than one more direct.

Kurai, you missed the point entirely. Regarding the exploit, Micro was threatening to ban us on the DBF chat for using it on an unrelated site, far outside his jurisdiction. Secondly, my record has nothing to do with the problems presented here and in the last thread.

[priok]

Is there a problem? I heard somebody would like to speak to me. :-}

[FoxtrotZero]

I maintain that MicroFarad should be demoted from chat.

I geniunely like MicroFarad, and I genuinely consider us a pair of unlikely friends. The fact of the matter is, I don't believe he has what it takes, entirely, to remain a moderator of the chat.

Firstly I want to address a fact that I know may arise. I realise that by criticizing another member's ability to moderate I am being at least partially hypocritical. However, until such time as the general populace of the form request my demotion, I fail to accept that my vote in this matter be diminished whatsoever in value.

MicroFarad has many of the components necessary. He is determined to be helpful, and in many ways he has been. But he has a habit of being somewhat hammerhappy, if one will, and has a tendency to be disagreeable. I believe this is very well demonstrated in the case against Priok.

I'm not exactly the type of person that can disassemble a person and explain them. But I do know that on multiple occasions, MicroFarad has been overzealous and I have more than once, with difficulty, had to metaphorically 'hold him back'. At one point i've pulled rank, so to speak, on his decisions (which is something I would be hesitant to try now, as it might not be airtight; while I do not see myself as without influence on this fourm, him and I are technically equal in rank, and I don't know if veteranism implys seniority).

I'll leave it at this. I hold nothing against MicroFarad personally, but I believe he is kind of like trying to fit an octatgon into a pentagular slot. Just one or two too many rough edges. And as such I continue to support the movement for his demotion.

--FoxtrotZero

[Fringe Pioneer]

Well, there seems to be significant support for MicroFarad's removal of chat moderator duties, and various reasons to do so.

Are there any other chat moderators that would like to voice an opinion before I finalize a decision?

[Draxorion]

I'd like to make my decision as well... Although this won't change any significant amount of anything as it is now, I'd still like to speak my own opinion in this matter...

I side with the majority, although the majority is not what I decided to "follow". In this, My opinion of MF is very similar to the rest of yours'. Except, it slightly makes me uncomfortable to say this, which is telling a friend of mine, indirectly, that I go against his position.

MicroFarad has been seen as a troll of sorts, and insulted by many, mainly the same people. Most of these are exaggerations, but I find that some of these actually seem a bit... Reasonable. He seemed to be the one who stood out, and was always on the "other side" of arguments, in which he became frustrated by the other group's attempts to convince him that he had done something unreasonable. Although he does mainly leave after the major points are made, from both sides, I still feel sympathy for him. Not that this affects my opinion in a major way of course. Anyways, Farad, like all humans, has made mistakes. To make up for this mistake, he has tried to atone for them. With little avail, and return to the past ways. His experience and time as a Moderator have been long. This cannot change, however, the fact that he is disliked by many in the community. In order to settle it, I would say that it be best that MicroFarad be demoderated... In order to prevent further assaults on MF, and settle the community on this case... That is my sight.

I simply want to say this, to give a "last word" to this argument, in my own thoughts as a whole. That is all.

[microfarad]

Probably should have just stayed resigned.

But you guys ought to wake up a bit. Trolls are everywhere nowadays.

Can I be there when you de-mod me?
And I want Veers to be there, but I want Fox to do it.

[kuraikiba]

I figure if MF has gotten the position BACK so many times, there must be some merit to keeping him. Besides, what fun is excess pruning?

[Alonso]

I agree.

[Qwerty]

Fox can't do it, only I (and by extension Veers) have access to the mod list.

[D_M-01]

May 13, 2011 17:00:21 GMT kuraikiba said:

I figure if MF has gotten the position BACK so many times, there must be some merit to keeping him. Besides, what fun is excess pruning?

The fact he has been so constantly promoted and demoted only shows that his character is all but controversial. There is no "merit" pertaining to such characteristic.

[Draxorion]

That certainly is a valid point... More controversy often leads to arguments and more problematic situations... I do agree with this...

[GloveParty]

Indeed. He's been demoted tons of times.