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Post by D_M-01 on Jun 30, 2012 17:42:28 GMT
You can find much of the information regarding biological immortality on WikipediaBasically, the concept of biological immortality is that humanity will eventually reach a point to where they reverse the process of aging to where the only way people could die would either be by freak accidents such as car crashes or from disease. Even disease is questionable as science is constantly finding ways to fight viruses and bacteria through the use of emerging medical technology. The question of this debate is: Do you feel that humanity will discover how to become biologically immortal and utilize it? Also, were this achieved, would you agree to become biologically immortal. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe humanity will reach this point. In fact, I think it will occur within my lifetime. They have already made attempts to reverse aging in lab rats, and many of the results have shown success. A primary reason for aging is the result of a protein chain inside your cells. As your cells divide, this protein chain slowly becomes smaller and smaller, eventually to a point where the cells start to become abnormal and lose their functioning. I feel that with emerging science we will be able to fix this "problem". I would also choose to become biologically immortal if I had the opportunity. Of course, I still have the possibility of dying, but I will not have to worry about becoming weakened by age.
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Post by AlchmistFaust on Jun 30, 2012 18:23:45 GMT
There is a type of jellyfish, called the Turritopsis Nutricula, which is biologically immortal. When it reaches the most advanced adult stage, it reverts back to a polyp colony, then growing back to an adult stage, and so on. This process can be repeated forever, as long as the jellyfish doesn't get damaged from some other souce such as disease or predation. Here's a video of the thing:
I believe scientists are already studying it, but I can't find reliable information. It is a very rare animal, though, so there's not much data about it.
Back to the main question, I think that the idea of immortality that still leaves a chance for you to die is pretty much fantastic. However, it could lead to various problems in our society, such as overpopulation (read Kurt Vonnegut's story "Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow", it deals nicely with that). Perhaps the only way of making it work would be using some kind of global population control.
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Post by D_M-01 on Jun 30, 2012 18:40:28 GMT
Well overpopulation can also be assessed with other emerging technologies and future concepts (ex: Underwater domes, terraforming).
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Post by AlchmistFaust on Jun 30, 2012 18:48:45 GMT
As long as we reside in Earth, resources will be limited, so maintaining an underwater colony could be difficult, considering that without deaths, the population would always increase. Terraforming could work, as long as the new planet has some of the basic things needed for human life, like water or minerals. But then, population control wouldn't be a cruel thing. It's not about ''killing'' the excess people, but rather not allowing the population to grow.
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Post by D_M-01 on Jun 30, 2012 19:00:19 GMT
I would say that currently the resources on Earth are limited, yet have you seen some of the things science has been able to do with converting substances into other, more useful things? We've created artificial photosynthesis as an example. I would not say our resources are going to be limited in the future, because the things we find in space could be converted into more useful substances.
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Post by AlchmistFaust on Jun 30, 2012 19:08:19 GMT
In space then. Solely relying on earth wouldn't make it, however.
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Post by zelkova on Jun 30, 2012 19:14:19 GMT
I believe it would be possible and even within my lifetime. If the choice was given I would take it as death is still possible.
As for overpopulation I believe parents will slow down on having kids and become more active as their body isn't dieing on them. The world would at one point will be mostly adults and hopefully we will have a power source that can take us to that new planet and start a new world with hopefully less pollution. We also have Mars and possibly the face side of the moon though it will take a ton of resources to get those two places started.
Also humans are generally too stupid to use common sense. We will have war over something stupid and kill ourselves. Hell we may have a war out of boredom and start playing a much deadlier version of "Jack Ass". It is interesting what people would do when bored.
Though not a reliable source and are poor examples some games play around with the idea. In Golden Sun though life is "perfect" as there is no war or diseases everyone is completely bored of life itself and they only eat because the king order them to.
Sound depressing at that point. Where your life become so dull you just don't want to eat.
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Post by AlchmistFaust on Jun 30, 2012 19:22:14 GMT
Not trying to derail, but what Zelkova said about the perfect life reminded me of a certain experiment that was done with mice, called Universe 25. They made the perfect "society" for mice, gave them plenty of food and drink, and they just started to go down on cannibalism and simply kill themselves by not eating. Just take a look at this article: www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.phpNow, back to the main theme: Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter, could be terraformed. It has plenty of water and could possibly even develop life naturally.
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Post by zelkova on Jun 30, 2012 19:41:38 GMT
Not trying to derail, but what Zelkova said about the perfect life reminded me of a certain experiment that was done with mice, called Universe 25. They made the perfect "society" for mice, gave them plenty of food and drink, and they just started to go down on cannibalism and simply kill themselves by not eating. Just take a look at this article: www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.phpNow, back to the main theme: Europa, one of the moons of Jupiter, could be terraformed. It has plenty of water and could possibly even develop life naturally. Wow, that was a great read. It also kinda scare me that it fit in with my thought of "Hell we may have a war out of boredom". Even if some of us dislike the idea we are still animals no matter how "smart" we think we are over other species.
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Post by Hachi1 on Jul 1, 2012 5:21:55 GMT
Our technology is advancing, and we are a smart race, but like Zelkova said, we are still just animals. Like any other animal, I believe we will reach a climax in population and suddenly crash. (The population 'wave' graph). For example, I have pet guinea pigs, and they live in an outside enclosure with plenty of grass. As the population of guinea pigs slowly increase, the amount of grass slowly decreases. at one point, when there was no more grass, 80% of my guinea pigs died in a few weeks. the grass started to grow back, and the few remaining guinea pigs started o re-populate. We, humans, are just animals. No matter where technology takes us, that will not change.
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Post by AlchmistFaust on Jul 1, 2012 23:38:54 GMT
I disagree on the "suddenly crash" part. I think the fall will be slow, if any disaster doesn't happen beforehand. But yes, indeed, the guinea pig situation reminds me that populations grow exponentially, and food grows arithmetically.
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Post by Hachi1 on Jul 2, 2012 0:22:30 GMT
yeah you're probably right. Also - this is just how I feel, but I don't like the concept of immortality. even is immortal jelly fish exist, immortality just seems like its against the rules of nature.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 2, 2012 1:02:07 GMT
What rules of nature? If you mean the standard rules of interactions between species, we smashed those to bits long ago. There's no reason we have to follow some overall "rules of nature".
That said, for the last century immortality has ALWAYS been possible within the lifetime of the speaker. There are a lot of things that happen when it comes to aging, and I highly doubt it would be possible to permanently hold any of them.
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Post by AlchmistFaust on Jul 2, 2012 1:09:27 GMT
Nature follows a simple rule: If it can be done, it's in the rules.
Also, for the "lots of things", which ones are you talking about?
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Post by zelkova on Jul 2, 2012 1:10:18 GMT
Chickens and cows shouldn't exist at this point. Humans farming them for their meat is the only reason why they still even on the food chain.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 2, 2012 1:16:38 GMT
I am referring to all of them. Brain cell death, tissue degeneration, the aforementioned issues, shortening of those thingies that help in mitosis, etc.
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Post by D_M-01 on Jul 2, 2012 3:03:42 GMT
Our technology is advancing, and we are a smart race, but like Zelkova said, we are still just animals. Like any other animal, I believe we will reach a climax in population and suddenly crash. (The population 'wave' graph). For example, I have pet guinea pigs, and they live in an outside enclosure with plenty of grass. As the population of guinea pigs slowly increase, the amount of grass slowly decreases. at one point, when there was no more grass, 80% of my guinea pigs died in a few weeks. the grass started to grow back, and the few remaining guinea pigs started o re-populate. We, humans, are just animals. No matter where technology takes us, that will not change. And unlike guinea pigs, we have the capability of reasoning that at one point this "grass" is going to run out. We see it all the time with the warnings of needing to move away from fossil fuels because it is inevitable they will one day be gone.
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Post by Hachi1 on Jul 2, 2012 4:13:53 GMT
We may have the capability to reason, we aren't doing much about it. We need to move away from fossil fuels, but what are we doing about that? We maybe buying more efficient cars etc, but overall our actions aren't relating very well to our knowledge. Look at this:
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 2, 2012 4:27:17 GMT
Course, if we don't use said sense of reason, we have the same population curve as anyone.
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Post by Hachi1 on Jul 2, 2012 4:34:06 GMT
If there was some questionnaire asking whether people care about the environment, many people will say yes. (I think) At a local supermarket, they decided to make people pay for plastic bags. By making people think the supermarket is eco-friendly, they should attract some customers, as people can easily take there own bags. However - this change resulted in a huge downfall of customers, so now they are back to having free bags. Even small things like this add up.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 2, 2012 4:43:34 GMT
People are perfectly willing to say that they are willing to make sacrifices for the environment. They are far less willing to actually do it.
...This argument has gotten off topic.
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Post by zelkova on Jul 2, 2012 11:35:23 GMT
Back on the main subject.
Lets assume they did make the FoY (fountain of youth) medication. How do you think scientist would give it out? Would there be requirements such as only those who spend so-so years in the army? Would there be a huge price tag that only the rich could even began to pay for? Would it only be given to those who seem to be the brightest of our generation? I highly doubt Stephen Hawking would accept being the way he is forever personally but would he be one of the few that can obtain such a powerful ability, the ability to simply keep on living without aging being the cause of death?
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Post by D_M-01 on Jul 2, 2012 18:32:57 GMT
Back on the main subject. Lets assume they did make the FoY (fountain of youth) medication. How do you think scientist would give it out? Would there be requirements such as only those who spend so-so years in the army? Would there be a huge price tag that only the rich could even began to pay for? Would it only be given to those who seem to be the brightest of our generation? I highly doubt Stephen Hawking would accept being the way he is forever personally but would he be one of the few that can obtain such a powerful ability, the ability to simply keep on living without aging being the cause of death? You must also take into account that by that time we would probably be able to cure Stephen Hawking of his ailment.
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Post by zelkova on Jul 2, 2012 19:33:05 GMT
That more of a debate for Mr. Hawking. I was thinking about that though. They could give it out to those who are disable to kinda "even out" their horrible lives.
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Post by Hachi1 on Jul 3, 2012 0:18:58 GMT
If there was an incredible 'foy' medication, it would be a problem when it comes to distribution. It is easy to say 'just give it to disabled people, or smart people who deserve it', but the way society works is that we are all meant to be equals. If a person 'deserves' the medication, then everyone does. (personally I don't feel that way, but that is how most countries work) Wasn't this meant to be a debate about whether immortality existed?
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Post by zelkova on Jul 3, 2012 11:39:04 GMT
No, the first post ask if there was immortality then how will it work and such. What shall be the outcome of us using it. Will it even be in our lifetime.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jul 4, 2012 2:33:02 GMT
Course, the company to make it would be rich indeed. They wouldn't give it away cheap. It may be "everyone gets it" or "the deserving get it", but the reality would be "the rich get it".
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Post by Phantom Zero on Jul 12, 2012 6:18:00 GMT
Well, seeing as though Biological Immortality is a possibility in the relatively near future, you must think of the societal repercussions too. There would no longer be any concerns besides undermining those who live normally, and those who live forever. Its not who will get it (We all know the rich get it first.) but a matter of what happens afterward that really scares me. With immortality in place, humanity can live forever. When a species evolves immortality by natural or synthetic means that means they have reached the apex of their existence and therefor they have no reason to do anything or advance further. Stagnation results and the species going into a collapse. No space, no under water, no nothing. We just stay the way we are because we don't need to do anything.
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Post by Clockwork on Jul 12, 2012 12:30:15 GMT
The shameful thing is that we have such a problem with overpopulation now. What if no one died? There would have to a bottleneck somewhere. Or that we just couldn't have kids.
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Post by Alonso on Jul 12, 2012 15:32:43 GMT
Being biologically immortal, I believe will be possible but only for those select few who have the money nd the mean, the government won't just give it to us, and those who are poor or have proverlems such as defects biologically, won't want to be perpetually poor,w.t.c. And I personally wouldn't like biological immortality. Also, I know this is sci fi, but has anyone eve watched torch wood, well there was as series where this happened and nobody could die. Well, this is just one of many proverlems that could arise from this.
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