Laser Technology - Basics, gates, memory...
Miczu
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by Miczu on Jun 25, 2010 7:16:56 GMT
The memory is great. At first I though it was normal changing reflecting surface with thunder, but it only remove the metal that is int the way, so it work more reliable. Using both thunder and laser is only issue. That's why we need (new element) that can change thunder->laser laser->thunder
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Post by microfarad on Jun 25, 2010 8:04:48 GMT
That is why we need the NAND element... I prefer my version, the ODNAND, as apposed to the CDNAND, since it has more applications. I do like the dynamic-ness of the the CDNAND though. If you don't know what I'm talking about go here: disabled.t28.net/forum/pgtech/7487.htmlYeah... I have no idea how to get that into the Powder Game.
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Miczu
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by Miczu on Jun 25, 2010 9:00:52 GMT
Well it would be hard to get the idea to the PG programmers... If listo was the programmer there was light of hope, but now... don't know if it will go well
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Post by microfarad on Jun 26, 2010 15:03:31 GMT
I say we stalk Ha55ii. *evil grin*
...JK
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Jun 26, 2010 20:53:09 GMT
Already on it. I'm already in contact with Otascube and he told me how to contact Ha55ii. However, I doubt any element that exists only as a logic gate would get through.
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Miczu
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by Miczu on Jul 6, 2010 11:49:23 GMT
You could ask him what requirement are needed for the element approval and we can work this out somehow Ps. Technology board will be probably on break till new element or something new (PG tech?).
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Post by izacque on Jul 17, 2010 15:18:43 GMT
what if we asked Ha55ii for some more bounce conditions? Maybe if laser hit a triangle of metal, it would split? And I'm trying to make a version of the mercury beam splitter where the output doesn't cross paths with the input. Not having much success. The beam splitter is plagued by this path-crossing because it causes the laser output to be slightly random instead of rhythmically constant. Maybe if we put our heads together we can find a way to edit the splitter?
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Miczu
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by Miczu on Jul 18, 2010 21:26:44 GMT
Changing this from block to split into two beams would be enough to make many months worth of work on PG tech.
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Post by noodlesoup on Jul 19, 2010 4:02:35 GMT
It would conflict with previous uploads. That is what he would probably tell you, although it is worth it.
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Miczu
New Member
Posts: 17
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Post by Miczu on Jul 19, 2010 8:15:09 GMT
Wasn't "conflict with previous uploads" one of Listo's excuses? We can't even tell if that is true...
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Post by Elmach on Jul 19, 2010 18:17:07 GMT
Which is why we need a backwards-compatibility button. (Which I put in Nonelement request thread... I think. I'll do it again.)
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Post by izacque on Jul 19, 2010 21:18:28 GMT
Well, we can try at least. Miczu is right. A single-dot splitter would be all we need.
EDIT: maybe not ALL, but it would sure help a TON
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Post by endy123 on Aug 14, 2010 4:27:48 GMT
Little Mercury Loop/splitter example: The example above allows a laser to come into the loop from the bottom, then will loop it around endlessly while randomly sending a duplicate beam out from the side. it's honestly pretty easy to make, the main thing is using mercury sliding back and forth to create the different shapes to reflect/duplicate the laser. Mercury can also be pushed(sideways) by laser which is novel. So far only used it to create a virtual match between the player and clone, each attempting to push mercury resting on a metal bar in opposite directions. Still interesting might be able to eventually create some sort of logic switch with it. The main issue is that the mercury splitter/diodes will all eventually break. mercury can either: Randomly tunnel through the metal/glass and escape Mysteriously freeze in place Still have a long while before either of these occur so until then it's handy.
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Post by microfarad on Aug 14, 2010 14:31:43 GMT
Mercury's unreliability is the primary concern, and the reason that I have payed little heed to mercury logic. If we are to pursue PG tech any further, we really need to just build some other neat things with tubes. I have a plan for a simple computer in fact, but I can't make a small enough splitter...
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Post by darkchaos10 on Aug 14, 2010 17:12:39 GMT
MF how small does it need to be?
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Post by endy123 on Aug 14, 2010 17:46:35 GMT
that's why I'm thinking mercury for temporary devices. Even though temporary they'll last the typical time someone views the upload, so decent enough. Wish we knew the physics behind the issues though. Would be handy if we could replicate them deliberately. is there like a guide to tubes anywhere? Seen all kinds of talk about them, very little instruction on usage
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Post by microfarad on Aug 15, 2010 21:05:55 GMT
Tubes are made of metal. They consist of two parallel lines of metal, 9 pixels long, spaced two pixels apart, forming a tube. Z lasers in tubes zig zag back and forth, going down the tube. B lasers go straight down the tube and block the Z lasers. It is important that the Z lasers and the B lasers head through the tube in opposite directions, otherwise the Z laser may fail to be blocked by the B laser. Often, there will be flanges guiding the Z lasers into the tube. See attached picture for a visual... As for using tubes, you must be logical. Think of what needs to be done, and connect tubes together to make it happen. My fondest memories of tubes were making messy networks of lasers all over the screen, connecting tubes together... It usually didn't do much (count in binary or something) but it was fun! Attachments:
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Post by endy123 on Aug 27, 2010 3:22:32 GMT
thanks for the post.
I'm going to try to work with wheel instead of mercury. Got it to function as a controllable duplicator(far far more reliable). Just need to tie it in with a memory device now.
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Post by Elmach on Sept 3, 2010 4:55:31 GMT
Do we have a splitter?
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Sept 3, 2010 5:08:39 GMT
Yes, we do.
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Post by Elmach on Sept 8, 2010 2:34:23 GMT
One that reliably splits every beam?
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Post by endy123 on Sept 8, 2010 3:46:03 GMT
0030000000100*02102*01*03*06*05*01w00q0000Aq01q0B*02000n0A100u0Bq0Hq0E*0Bn0Hu0Jq0D00400Gq01u0BT0Bo0K000m00s00T0Ez0ST0Bu00w0Y000.00z0S00Qv0I10I00hu0g*0Fv0iu0O10A00Qn0N00C10p*0Fn0rq0V*0uq0gq0w*0Mq0gy0GW00X0Bt00o0P*0x10jq0z00R116q14*0.11910t*1Bu0J10C00qq0y11G*15u1Fq1D018u1Lq0L01N00k10j*0mu0l*0Bv0n01Ru1Pv1W*1T11S*1Vu1U000v1Z*1c11b01eu1dv1f01i11hv1kv1nu1ju1p11mu1qu1Yu1s01X01v*1au1t11r11zu1yu1*01w*1gu20*1x02101lu23*22025v1o11.029u1u*24*2E*28*2F02602C12B*2Hv2Au2702I*2Lu2D*2G*2R02O*2Sv2M02Ju2Nv2V*2P12K*2Uu2Q02T02dv2Y*2b12B.0fT00p0Bw0Yp2kv0SX13013X2jq0BX00r2op11o2oo2uo0Bp11n2tX0AT1e02pT2m11Sz0dX2r011035X2ro0Bx1e10jo0eX34X3C035x39u0M.0Yw34x3F000y3B000x3Jy3Lx3N.3Ev0*.3Q10jy3Ov0gp0eT2ot3Su0By3U13T.3Y03K.3cy3au3Z.3e.3hX38v3RX3j13bX3lu3gX3n03dX3py3f03q03Mv3k03u12By3s*24y3sy3..3i03wu3o04103tx3PX3r.3ew0Dn2ry0G00AX3KT31u3Zw48X0cn2rn0GT3rw4Fp37n2r*4AX2oX0cp0UX13o4Q.1313Tw4Fz4Ao36v4N.4No2z*4N*4WX1Wy0c10A33K14By2s02w04Bm2vX0Go2r14U14fy0DX4m036n0jX4R14oq0034gq11*3Cv4cm2j036o4lq0ry4eq4wy4qp2rt4O011u4*p4jX4rX4G14v34xX1eo3Cw4ip11.4Ap36y0G15Dy4qw4lw4br4Ho0*w0D35Ev4Nq4c04yr2rm2oq2un5R14p14B02pr4Nr4Nv4cn4lo4Ou2j15M14Bo2rq2rs4Mr5mq5mn5aq5410po11z2rx59X02p0JX02n4Qs5Lu4E15bq0bX0X02pz5eo5ym2zq4Oo4lr5r34x00Iy5rn0by6D912y6D06C14vn6E13xw0dx0f14UT38z5RT6P12a02eu1ut0cT0Bm0e10ju6V002z2cv2f06T16Sv6cv6fu6bu6h16eu6iu2Xu6k02W06n*2Zu6l16j16ru6qu6t06o*2gu6u*6p06v06du6x*6wT0Mu0d*0Fs0gT3Zt0Yq1Pt6m*6y*79*6w06zv6g16s07Cu78*7B*7A06.07F17E*7Iv7Du6*07J*7Mu7G07P*7H*7T07S07Vv7N07Ku7Ov2A*0710417c*7bw0A0mE0
I've been using this thing, larger than I care for though shooting to the right, causes the wheel to temporarily duplicate the beam on the bottom while duplicating a constant beam from the top. shooting to the left, wipes the duplicating laser from the wheel.
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Post by darkchaos10 on Sept 10, 2010 8:10:59 GMT
I don't find it reliable. In fact, I find mercury more reliable than that.
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Post by Elmach on Sept 11, 2010 3:58:31 GMT
I've been using this thing, larger than I care for though shooting to the right, causes the wheel to temporarily duplicate the beam on the bottom while duplicating a constant beam from the top. shooting to the left, wipes the duplicating laser from the wheel. I mean, when you input one laser, it outputs two lasers. Exactly two lasers. Does anyone remember the mercury one (splitter)?
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Sept 14, 2010 13:49:44 GMT
The mercury one does split the beam, but it outputs a series of shorter lasers.
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Post by darkchaos10 on Sept 17, 2010 17:25:57 GMT
The mercury one does split the beam, but it outputs a series of shorter lasers. Not really, beam length is pretty much a constant. And it doesn't output a series of lasers, only two, well, mine doesn't: (zoom in to scale x8) 0030000000100*02102*01*03*06*05*01w00q00004000v00u01u0B*0200Du0F00Cv0E10E00Ku0J*0Hv0Lu0G*0Bv0Q00N10M*0Pu0O*0Su0X00I10V*0Y10b00au0R00e00Uu0fv0T*0W10dv0j*0cu0iu0Zv0m00g*0ku0o10lu0pu0v10u10xu0tu0z00h00**0s010*0n01200r*13*11*17*16*1901501Bv0qv1Du0wu0.*1801Cu1F014v1E10y01Ku1J*1Hv1Lu1G*1Av1Q01N11M*1Pu1O*1Su1X01I11V*1Y11b01au1R01e01Uu1fv1T*1W11dv1j*1cu1iu1Zv1m01g*1ku1o11lu1pu1v11u11xu1tu1z01h01**1s020*1n00*o00y00T00o0Bq2510Mn25T0Bs29u2Cy26000n2D027y00c27T2JT0Bn2Ho25c0Bf2J02I10Mo2OT2Jo00P2My1wu1.p2B02Fo2Ny26o0BT2702Gy0Jn2ZT2d02Fm2Hp2h02Ru0Bp2lo2ky2FT0Bo2H*11q25X2ny0Jp2Bp2ry2X02201r*23*21*31*30*3302*035v1qv37u2z*32036u39*34v3811y02.v3Eu1.*3Av3H03Gu3C03B13F*3Ju3Mv3K*3P13O*3Du3Qu3V13T03Nu3I*3U13Xv3R*3au3Z03Y03L13bu3Wu3ev3c03f*3Su3ju3i03gu0t*0710413s*3rw0A0iE0 edit: removed code block inside spoiler block. edit 2: A clock based on it: 0030000000100*02102*01*03*06*05*01w00q00004000v00u01u0B*0200Du0F00Cv0E10E00Ku0J*0Hv0Lu0G*0Bv0Q00N10M*0Pu0O*0Su0X00I10V*0Y10b00au0R00e00Uu0fv0T*0W10dv0j*0cu0iu0Zv0m00g*0ku0o10lu0pu0v10u10xu0tu0z00h00**0s010*0n01200r*13*11*17*16*1901501Bv0qv1Du0wu0.*1801Cu1F014v1E10y01Ku1J*1Hv1Lu1G*1Av1Q01N11M*1Pu1O*1Su1X01I11V*1Y11b01au1R01e01Uu1fv1T*1W11dv1j*1cu1iu1Zv1m01g*1ku1o11lu1pu1v11u11xu1tu1z01h01**1s020*1n00*o00y00T00o0Bq2510Mn25T0Bs29u2Cy26000n2D027y00c27T2JT0Bn2H*00x2Fo2J000f2Qo2Hm25X0Bc26c27P2My0Jm2B000t2Ty2Ft2N*13s2an2Hq2Bo0Bo2e01r*23*21*2n*2m*2p02l02rv1qv2tu1wu1.*2o02su2v02202y11y02.v2u130*2xv32u2w*2qv35031u2z*34u3A*37u3C02*u3603F039133*3D13J03H*3B13Lv38*3Nu3Gv3P*3Ku3Ru3Ev3S03M*3T03Iu3U13Ou3Vu3c13b10x*0710413h*3gw0A0jE7
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Post by Elmach on Sept 17, 2010 22:19:46 GMT
The mercury one does split the beam, but it outputs a series of shorter lasers. Not really, beam length is pretty much a constant. And it doesn't output a series of lasers, only two, well, mine doesn't: (zoom in to scale x8) 0030000000100*02102*01*03*06*05*01w00q00004000v00u01u0B*0200Du0F00Cv0E10E00Ku0J*0Hv0Lu0G*0Bv0Q00N10M*0Pu0O*0Su0X00I10V*0Y10b00au0R00e00Uu0fv0T*0W10dv0j*0cu0iu0Zv0m00g*0ku0o10lu0pu0v10u10xu0tu0z00h00**0s010*0n01200r*13*11*17*16*1901501Bv0qv1Du0wu0.*1801Cu1F014v1E10y01Ku1J*1Hv1Lu1G*1Av1Q01N11M*1Pu1O*1Su1X01I11V*1Y11b01au1R01e01Uu1fv1T*1W11dv1j*1cu1iu1Zv1m01g*1ku1o11lu1pu1v11u11xu1tu1z01h01**1s020*1n00*o00y00T00o0Bq2510Mn25T0Bs29u2Cy26000n2D027y00c27T2JT0Bn2Ho25c0Bf2J02I10Mo2OT2Jo00P2My1wu1.p2B02Fo2Ny26o0BT2702Gy0Jn2ZT2d02Fm2Hp2h02Ru0Bp2lo2ky2FT0Bo2H*11q25X2ny0Jp2Bp2ry2X02201r*23*21*31*30*3302*035v1qv37u2z*32036u39*34v3811y02.v3Eu1.*3Av3H03Gu3C03B13F*3Ju3Mv3K*3P13O*3Du3Qu3V13T03Nu3I*3U13Xv3R*3au3Z03Y03L13bu3Wu3ev3c03f*3Su3ju3i03gu0t*0710413s*3rw0A0iE0 edit: removed code block inside spoiler block. edit 2: A clock based on it: 0030000000100*02102*01*03*06*05*01w00q00004000v00u01u0B*0200Du0F00Cv0E10E00Ku0J*0Hv0Lu0G*0Bv0Q00N10M*0Pu0O*0Su0X00I10V*0Y10b00au0R00e00Uu0fv0T*0W10dv0j*0cu0iu0Zv0m00g*0ku0o10lu0pu0v10u10xu0tu0z00h00**0s010*0n01200r*13*11*17*16*1901501Bv0qv1Du0wu0.*1801Cu1F014v1E10y01Ku1J*1Hv1Lu1G*1Av1Q01N11M*1Pu1O*1Su1X01I11V*1Y11b01au1R01e01Uu1fv1T*1W11dv1j*1cu1iu1Zv1m01g*1ku1o11lu1pu1v11u11xu1tu1z01h01**1s020*1n00*o00y00T00o0Bq2510Mn25T0Bs29u2Cy26000n2D027y00c27T2JT0Bn2H*00x2Fo2J000f2Qo2Hm25X0Bc26c27P2My0Jm2B000t2Ty2Ft2N*13s2an2Hq2Bo0Bo2e01r*23*21*2n*2m*2p02l02rv1qv2tu1wu1.*2o02su2v02202y11y02.v2u130*2xv32u2w*2qv35031u2z*34u3A*37u3C02*u3603F039133*3D13J03H*3B13Lv38*3Nu3Gv3P*3Ku3Ru3Ev3S03M*3T03Iu3U13Ou3Vu3c13b10x*0710413h*3gw0A0jE7 Thanks. I've been trying to find it for a long time.
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Post by microfarad on Sept 18, 2010 0:42:11 GMT
I miss the good old days when tubes were the thing. All these distracting side technologies are dead ends. Don't you see???
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Post by darkchaos10 on Sept 18, 2010 8:02:27 GMT
Tubes are still needed, but there isn't much to add to them, and not everything needs to use them. Also, you can't split a laser with tubes, you can with mercury.
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Post by Elmach on Sept 21, 2010 4:39:52 GMT
Tubes are still needed, but I think the clock is needed to do good time-keeping.
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