|
Post by D_M-01 on Jul 6, 2011 1:46:33 GMT
Upon looking at this thread I have noticed the hatred going among each side.
This user has an opinion. We do not need to step down to their level if they so choose to be a troll.
|
|
|
Post by anon on Jul 6, 2011 6:31:47 GMT
I have downloaded pt.
Time to judge in one year.
|
|
|
Post by Qwerty on Jul 6, 2011 6:36:39 GMT
Kurai, that's all very well, but this guy came into our forum posting a thread that has nothing to do with PT and is clearly meant just to annoy us. Now, if he had used the ALREADY EXISTING serious debate thread, there would be no issues. But, no. He insists on entering on a high horse and proceeding to display some of the worst Powder Toy elitism out there. Yes, Powder Toy is better, but that's no call to come all the way to this forum specifically to rub it in our faces.
|
|
Powder toy is better
Guest
|
Post by Powder toy is better on Jul 6, 2011 6:49:46 GMT
Can any of you name anything redeeming about dan ball anymore? The only reason you people come here is because of the update every friday. The updates are artificcaly delayed you all realize. Ha55ii had the next 20 updates ready for PG and ST but releases them slowly to keep you morons coming back. Don't belive me? See for yourself.
|
|
|
Post by Rock on Jul 6, 2011 13:49:30 GMT
I'll say what I've been saying over and over again: Moving Solids, Ant, and Cloud. Even one of your mods said Cloud would be very hard to implement into PT, so it probably wouldn't happen. And how does that video even remotely relate to PG?
|
|
|
Post by DucTape on Jul 6, 2011 22:30:41 GMT
Hey guys. Regular Powder Toy user, and occasional Powder Game user here. Just wanted to say a few things for powder toy, since the OP makes an awful diplomat.
I heard an argument on how Powder Toy's life elements can't interact with other elements, not true! When you make stable patterns with life, you can easily create heaters and coolers. Speaking of which, Powder Toy has a heat system. Elements can transfer heat to each other, and recent updates have added air temperature. Another area where TPT excels is electronics. TPT has several semiconductors to allow for creation of diodes and logic gates. The semiconductors can also be arranged to make a solar panel that generates electricity from photons. There are other useful electrical elements too. WIFI allows for easy, multi-channel, wireless electricity transfer. ARAY can create two types of bray, with different uses. The normal bray can either be used to intersect and create points (I've seen this used t make a bray typewriter) or to create continuous solid lines. The brown bray flicker on and off quickly, and is used for cooling elements to a normal temperature. There are also elements for electricity to interact with other game aspects, including pressure (pump), heat (hswc), photons (lcry), and element creation (pcln).
Some other fun things in powder toy- If you want to know more about any of these, ask me or look at the powder toy wiki! Newtonian gravity- Allows photons to be manipulated by BHOL and WHOL. Nuclear elements- Pretty self explanatory Deco Layer- Can color any element any color, useful for pixel art and cool looking saves Portals- Teleport elements, has the same channel system as WIFI Pipes- Move elements through pipe without teleporting
Now for the Powder Game counterarguments/concessions
Lasers- If you know how to properly use photons in PT you can get the same effects Birds & Ants- From playing around with these a bit, they are actually kinda cool, and unique to PG Movable solids- Neither game really gets this very well, but the limited movable slide PG game has beat anything PT has
|
|
|
Post by Rock on Jul 6, 2011 22:34:45 GMT
Oh, look. A sane person.
This basically hits upon everything, congratulations. Both games have their strong points, but Powder Toy emerges as the overall better game.
|
|
|
Post by catelite on Jul 6, 2011 22:38:56 GMT
...Uhhh @_@ I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here.
Slightly insulted that giving people temporary bans to keep the peace on TPT forums makes me ban happy. The last permanent ban in the last week was for a dude who made a save just to archive other people's work under his own name. `~` We aren't even allowed to make permanent bans without the forum admin's okay, or some otherwise predetermined criteria that usually equates something horribly serious.
Powder Toy was created in the first place only because Powder Game wouldn't run in linux on a particular machine. I don't like watching people argue over which one is better.
...Though, if anyone wonders, GOL particles are a totally different, and much older system of cellular automata that doesn't fit in perfectly with the margolus neighborhood kind of system that Falling Sand more closely resembles. Its primary use is for timing in electronics and persistant heaters and coolers. Stickman's movement code is absolutely atrocious, the dude flies through walls if he moves too quickly. D:
We're thinking of making a UI for a tutorial kind of thing, because 100+ elements makes the learning curve way too much like Dwarf Fortress and not enough like Powder Game. With elements like Pipe that require a number of GIF animations on a totally separate wiki page to even explain, it's become something of an issue lately.
...As far as useless elements in TPT, Photons are surprisingly not one of them. It only takes four pixels to make perfect right angle reflectors that can be used for making electronic circuits, as one person did in designing an LCD clock that relied on photons for its circuitry. Each photon can be any color in a band of thirty frequencies that refract differently through glass, producing rainbows and enabling things like thermometers to be built without mercury.
But on the other hand, we have elements like BIZR, which is nothing more than a placeholder element that boils when cooled, and freezes when heated. Vine, which due to compatibility issues with more decorative saves, has been entirely disabled and requires a button press to even function at all on its own. ANAR, which is nothing more than DUST which functions in an inverted way along velocity and pressure, falling into explosions and speeding away from black holes. We even have two very similar copies of the same fireworks element, and dozens more that don't appear on the menus due to their use in older programming experiments, such as EQVE which does literally nothing at all. Breakable clone is really most useful for making more powerful explosives, but not much else I've found besides for making fountains in explodable terrains destroyable.
TPT does have the obvious advantages of extremely complex heat calculation, even going as deep as water convection, so that heat in liquids rises above colder liquid, balancing heat more quickly than otherwise. And then Newtonian gravity, which even bends photons around in orbits, ambient heat which allows temperatures to pass between materials through the air, and which flows around on air currents. The game can be run in full screen, is less than two megabytes to download, and runs efficiently on -most- modern machines. Powder Game is obviously faster.
Really the game is complicated enough that it probably scares off a lot of people due to the sheer number of buttons when you first open it. Powder Game runs in a browser and is likely much easier to understand right off the bat. Which is better is a personal choice, I think. `~`
*Also, sorry about the text wall, got kinda carried away o_<
|
|
|
Post by Rock on Jul 6, 2011 22:53:45 GMT
No worries about the text wall, it's actually encouraged in debates such as these.
Anyway, to touch on some of the stuff you said, I think what irritates people here the most about the bans that are made on TPT is that there is no instant-ban system here, rather you get a warning bar, and when it hits 100 you get banned.
GOL is pretty useful, I am now finding, it'd just be nice if there was also a 1 pixel heater.
A tutorial would be very nice, it sounds like an interesting project.
I don't know where someone said photons are useless, they're pretty useful.
Most aren't really useless, they just only have one purpose. Though it would be helpful if things like MORT were in the menu...
This, however, is where PG truly falls flat against TPT. The Ambient Heat, Newtonian Gravity, and even just the regular heat system are what makes TPT worth playing. That and all the other stuff like the console, more elements, and other features.
I actually thought there was something wrong with my TPT when I first opened it, after not playing it since Skylark's last version.
|
|
|
Post by anon on Jul 6, 2011 23:51:40 GMT
Both games need moving solids, like incredibots.
|
|
|
Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jul 7, 2011 0:22:18 GMT
More powerful bombs? OSH- Good thing that there at least IS mods, however happy they are banning. But GAWD you have to be a PT expert to actually realize that it's a great game. And fawk elemental balls are useful. I'm actually really happy that there's a sane person that actually reads other posts.
|
|
Powder Toy is better
Guest
|
Post by Powder Toy is better on Jul 7, 2011 1:13:30 GMT
Powder toy had radiation, heat, gravity, wifi signals, portals, black holes and white holes. Powder game has... none of those
|
|
|
Post by mdog95 on Jul 7, 2011 1:23:31 GMT
K. PT also has ban-happy mods everywhere. They also don't have ant, bird, or laser. They also don't have a functioning player. They also have tons of noobs and copiers; more than PG has. Must I say more?
|
|
|
Post by Rock on Jul 7, 2011 1:23:57 GMT
Oh, look. An idiot.
Now that someone, two people, actually, with more than 2 brain cells have come and posted their reasons, you cannot just come and rip off their arguments. If it has taken you THIS long to finally realize that these are what makes TPT strong, then you need to get out or stop trolling.
|
|
|
Post by endy123 on Jul 7, 2011 1:40:07 GMT
you can do wifi now via Create... Can also use Create to output any kind of signal you want via Bubble Ball.
PG is more about creatively using a few elements rather than having access to a ridiculous large selection of elements.
and why does PT's wiki suck so badly? It's horrid compared to DB's and there's a crap ton more elements to try and wrap ones head around.
I kind of feel this thread is just pointless, we're not going to reach any kind of agreement here.
|
|
|
Post by Qwerty on Jul 7, 2011 2:53:46 GMT
Finally, a couple people came and restored my respect for PT goers. They're finally listing VALID arguments, and correct ones.
Speaking of which, I do love BIZR. It's neat. I did find something strange about the connection between broken glass and bagels, though.
|
|
|
Post by catelite on Jul 7, 2011 5:27:43 GMT
The bagels are a lie PT also has ban-happy mods everywhere. They also don't have ant, bird, or laser. They also don't have a functioning player. They also have tons of noobs and copiers; more than PG has. Must I say more? Like I was saying before, we can't make permanent bans without either serious reasons or predetermined circumstances. I can't just ban people because I feel like it, the best I can do is set temporary bans for progressively longer periods of time, which I normally don't ever need to do. I'm pretty sure the laser element in PG is at least roughly equivilent to TPT's photons. Photons don't spawn insta lasers, but the craft required is only about six pixels (one pcln, five void). The rest takes more of course, if you happen to want lasers that shoot rainbows that create holes of molten magma in everything. `~` And sorry for being popular, we can't stop people from copying other people's saves without implementing creepy measures that would prevent people from stamping from anyone else's work. It's something we decided not to do, since people have the capacity to hide their work after being saved so not even moderators can find it. Public work is public. On the other hand, copied work is only against any rules if someone complains about it. And since most people who care about their work being copied can instantly find any clones of their work using tags and report them, it's not really a huge deal.
|
|
Powder toy is better
Guest
|
Post by Powder toy is better on Jul 7, 2011 23:53:35 GMT
K. PT also has ban-happy mods everywhere. They also don't have ant, bird, or laser. They also don't have a functioning player. They also have tons of noobs and copiers; more than PG has. Must I say more? Whats wrong with being ban happy. No noobs ANYWHERE. Who needs ant? Powder toy has so many lifeforms that act like ant. Same goes for bird. And they do have a player that has a health bar.
|
|
|
Post by Rock on Jul 8, 2011 0:03:45 GMT
I see plenty of noobs, and one of them has posted right above me. You're obviously an idiot if you can't even bother to read the damn posts people have made in this thread, seeing how you still think ant is useless. And no, PT has no lifeforms that replicate Ant, you're just too stupid and too delusional to realize this. And no one has denied the fact that your STKM has a life bar, rather we've all said it was rather pointless seeing as the Player doesn't even work on TPT.
|
|
|
Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jul 8, 2011 0:37:25 GMT
As are many others, and if you don't give a crap what other people post then you may as well not post at all. None of the life on PT can exploit as much possibilities as bird and ant can, especially if you don't realize the capabilities ant can present by being like a clear tool at times. If you can't even listen to anoher argument then you fail at life, seriously. Go get an education, noob.
|
|
Powder Toy is better
Guest
|
Post by Powder Toy is better on Jul 8, 2011 17:13:19 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Fringe Pioneer on Jul 8, 2011 17:38:03 GMT
I do believe this goes in the Non Dan-Ball Games board, not the Powder Game board.
Be it as it may, Powder Toy does have many features that Powder Game doesn't - I realize that. If I'm correct, Powder Toy can even be played offline once downloaded. That alone should be desirable for a majority of users. I'm willing to bet many people would like the kind of things Powder Toy has as opposed to Powder Game, but I also know for a fact (because I happen to be one such person) that there are people who might think Powder Toy is a little too complex of what should be a relatively simple sandbox. What if we like only having Fighter, user-controllable Players 0 and 1, Ant, and Bird as our only life forms, and prefer instead to make the many permutations of our natural and artificial elements and their reactions with each other? What if all we want to do is waste some time for a little while? What if all we want to do is draw some pixel art, or make a Player course, or create calculators, and upload them to the Web where others can view both spam and art?
Have you ever considered that maybe someone doesn't have to give up one game for the other game? Why can't a user play with both Powder Toy and Powder Game? Why can't a user get inspiration from both games and decide how each other game should be updated?
Each game has its advantages and disadvantages, and whether something is an advantage or a disadvantage will vary from person to person, but because of this relativity, I believe that no game can be better than another. Neither is Powder Toy better than Powder Game, nor is Powder Game better than Powder Toy...
|
|
|
Post by catelite on Jul 8, 2011 18:37:36 GMT
powdertoy.co.uk/Wiki.html?id=elements:lifeWorkingish link, just for record. I need to clean up the wiki. ; And yes, there's no reason to bother debating over which is better, they're entirely different games all their own, at this point. n_n
|
|
|
Post by catelite on Jul 8, 2011 19:10:43 GMT
... lol, you haven't tried it before? o.o
Also awesome, I'm not used to links breaking, and didn't check behind myself. Afk, cleaning up wiki T_T
|
|
Powder toy is better
Guest
|
Post by Powder toy is better on Jul 8, 2011 19:27:03 GMT
I do believe this goes in the Non Dan-Ball Games board, not the Powder Game board. Be it as it may, Powder Toy does have many features that Powder Game doesn't - I realize that. If I'm correct, Powder Toy can even be played offline once downloaded. That alone should be desirable for a majority of users. I'm willing to bet many people would like the kind of things Powder Toy has as opposed to Powder Game, but I also know for a fact (because I happen to be one such person) that there are people who might think Powder Toy is a little too complex of what should be a relatively simple sandbox. What if we like only having Fighter, user-controllable Players 0 and 1, Ant, and Bird as our only life forms, and prefer instead to make the many permutations of our natural and artificial elements and their reactions with each other? What if all we want to do is waste some time for a little while? What if all we want to do is draw some pixel art, or make a Player course, or create calculators, and upload them to the Web where others can view both spam and art? Have you ever considered that maybe someone doesn't have to give up one game for the other game? Why can't a user play with both Powder Toy and Powder Game? Why can't a user get inspiration from both games and decide how each other game should be updated? Each game has its advantages and disadvantages, and whether something is an advantage or a disadvantage will vary from person to person, but because of this relativity, I believe that no game can be better than another. Neither is Powder Toy better than Powder Game, nor is Powder Game better than Powder Toy... I 100% agree with you. Why do you guys always bash powder toy.? They are both great
|
|
|
Post by Qwerty on Jul 8, 2011 23:32:14 GMT
PTiB, I wouldn't be talking. You are the person with the name "PowderToyIsBetter". By definition you cannot agree with Veers, since he says neither is better. You came all the way over here to bash us, and from what I see on my google alerts plenty of people on the Powder Toy forum bash PG all the time. We, on the other hand, do not bash PT. We don't go all the way over there and make threads under the name "Powder Game is Better".
Since you're contradicting yourself and your very name, I'm going to settle on "troll".
Also, in regards to the update: He sometimes works on updates before release, yes, in SR, but certainly not 20, and certainly not finished updates.
|
|
Powder toy is better
Guest
|
Post by Powder toy is better on Jul 9, 2011 7:44:27 GMT
I WIN, POWDER TOY IS BETTER
|
|
|
Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jul 9, 2011 14:15:22 GMT
Oh gawd. Hope for an IP ban soon and move this to the PG vs. PT thread in serious debate.
|
|
|
Post by Rock on Jul 9, 2011 14:41:36 GMT
Congratulations PTiB, you're my first ban. Your IP will be blocked for 3 days, and if you return and continue to troll, I will make it permanent.
|
|
|
Post by mdog95 on Jul 9, 2011 22:56:29 GMT
Hopefully, he'll just leave forever. He also tried to troll PG players on the PGCB, but pretty much everybody ignored him.
|
|
|