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Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jan 23, 2011 22:48:53 GMT
Bombed metal is not a powder though, it is only temporarily in that state. So it is, in fact, a stable particle.
Spark is still too controversial, But, FIRE AND SPARK ARE NOT PLASMAS, THEY CAN BE BLOWN!
Try putting a ton of nitro on the screen, then blow it up, for a very windy condition. This is how I experiment with windy conditions (bombed metal, fire, steam).
Charged ant is a plasma in powder game. It is unaffected by both gravity and wind, and has a pre-defined pattern. But, it can be dragged, which is different from the other plasmas.
Plus, laser and thunder also disappear with block, which charged ant doesn't, it simply redoubles on its own path.
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Post by Qwerty on Jan 23, 2011 22:57:32 GMT
We must make SOME connections to reality, or we may as well call powder a gas: Can plasmas in reality be affected by wind?
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Post by noodlesoup on Jan 23, 2011 23:15:47 GMT
The only randomness in laser and thunder is speed. They're directionally 100% predictable, and I'm assuming we weren't taking speed into account anyways, since nobody questioned laser's and thunder's positions as plasmas.
Also, charged ants fit the plasma definition perfectly, and there's nothing plasma like about a beam of light being reflected on some mirrors either, but the point of the PG category isn't to tell how the 'element' behaves IRL, it's to inform how the 'element' behaves on PG.
If we were to modify the plasma category to being wind-affected, thunder and laser and charged ant would have to be booted out or misrepresented as a 'plasma'.
And finally, some connections to reality in the categories do exist.
Really here we have two problems: 1) The state the elements should be categorized into, and 2) The definition of those states. What is seems is that the definitions aren't up for dispute, and if they are, we should move the debate to that first, and then categorize the elements.
Sorry for long post.
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Post by Qwerty on Jan 23, 2011 23:24:02 GMT
My problems are with the second, and not the first. We need the element states to make sense with each other; and we should probably add something like "unstable particles" for fire and spark and steam.
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Post by noodlesoup on Jan 23, 2011 23:25:37 GMT
Well maybe we should move the debate then, and continue this one when we're done with that one...?
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Post by Qwerty on Jan 23, 2011 23:32:06 GMT
Doesn't the first require the completion of the second? If we're changing properties, we also change positions.
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Post by noodlesoup on Jan 23, 2011 23:37:55 GMT
I was thinking we change properties first, sort elements out second, and debate on whatever element doesn't seem in the right place.
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Post by ganondorfchampin on Jan 24, 2011 0:04:26 GMT
Most elements in powder game have little to no analogue to those in reality Thus it is reasonable to classify them in terms of the properties it fulfill E.g. Fire in reality is a plasma, and plasma can be affected by wind, magnetic field etc.(since it is just a bunch of ions and electrons) However if we attempt to use the rules of reality all the time, then things will get Extremely complicated. Thus for fire, as it moves against gravity, and is easily swayed by wind. and all its dots move randomly. It fits the definition of a pg gas. Also as it disappears soon, that means it is unstable. Thus pg fire: unstable gas For steam, in reality it's an aerosol of liquid water droplets, and it spread like a gas But in pg, steam is motionless when there's only gravity Thus it is like a gas in many aspects, except it is unaffected by gravity Therefore it can be classified as particles It is unstable, thus: unstable particles. For charged ant, since it follows a predefined pattern and is unaffected by anything except Drag, it is a pg plasma. Charged metal is still a non drag able solid as the game treat the thunder and metal separately. Spark in reality is some heated or ionized metal fragments But in pg it is complicated According to various data here, spark seems to be affected by gravity And it also can be affected by wind and Drag Thus spark can be a gas However spark seemed to follow a predefined pattern (it spreads, but not in a random manner as gas, also it spread evenly instead of mainly upwards, as in fire) In addition, the velocity of all spark dots are the same, and they are not motionless upon placing. This make it works similar to laser.Which means spark can be a plasma So spark can be both a plasma and a gas. I'll let the community to decide on this one. Bombed metal in reality are metal fragments In pg it travels in a parabola Someone need to test whether it can be Dragged or blown in this state. Then it could either be a powder or a plasma. Tsk Tsk. Gases are not elements that are repelled by gravity, the are elements that are unaffected by gravity OR are repelled by gravity, and are affected by wind. Steam, fire, and gas are gases. Fire does NOT move against gravity, it merely makes an upwards wind current. |
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Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jan 24, 2011 0:06:38 GMT
I added unstable particles. Steam is there. But Fire is still on debate. And bombed metal, and charged ant, and spark, of course. Does anyone think the living powders belong in the powders?
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Post by kuraikiba on Jan 24, 2011 2:15:04 GMT
Laser just moves forward.
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Post by noodlesoup on Jan 24, 2011 2:46:44 GMT
Who said otherwise?
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Post by endy123 on Jan 24, 2011 4:42:56 GMT
charged seed?
-unaffected by gravity. Somewhat predictable. Depending on if it's encased or not it has a "lifespan" before it vanishes.
magma also behaves oddly. Sometimes not affected by gravity while sliding. It also fails to obey most of the "rules" for liquids. Doesn't exchange positions with anything, but stone(and even that's a bit iffy as it can cause stone to act like a liquid while nearby).
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Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jan 24, 2011 4:43:10 GMT
Um...yeah. So laser follows a pre-defined pattern. Which makes it a PG plasma, which was already agreed on. So...
Magma? No, it just has an undeterminable density. It can rest above or below mercury.
And we are talking about charged ant here, not charged seed. There is no such thing as charged seed...
Ant has no "lifespan", ant only disappears if the ant collides with another burrowing ant charged with the same solid. A single burrowing ant will burrow indefinitely, until it dies (contact with something that kills ant normally) or goes off the screen. Oh yeah, and the 999 dots thing.
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Post by Qwerty on Jan 24, 2011 14:53:21 GMT
For the unstable elements, it should be those that cannot be stabilized without clone or glitches: Fire, spark, steam, charged virus.
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Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jan 25, 2011 1:41:36 GMT
But unstable only refers to particles, with a definite known pattern of movement.
Unstable would simply be another "other" classification.
Know what, I'm adding it now.
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Post by Qwerty on Jan 25, 2011 3:24:30 GMT
Not neccessarily. Unstable should refer to anything that is not stable. That would make sense, no? Anything that, when left alone, will not and cannot maintain its form. Laser is stable, because you can reflect it and keep it there indefinitely, and it won't go out in a couple moments. Spark is not, and fire is not, and charged virus is not, since no matter what you do the actual particles will vanish.
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Post by Anonymousperson5 on Jan 25, 2011 3:56:52 GMT
What about clone-charged virus?
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Post by Qwerty on Jan 25, 2011 3:58:27 GMT
Still unstable. It will change to clone shortly, no stopping that. The fact that it changes back is irrelevant, as two elements are involved, making it a reaction.
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