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Post by GloveParty on Aug 20, 2011 4:18:41 GMT
The Internet lasts until you censor it. Would you? Anyway, even if the internet wasnt there... next paragraph.
Incorrect, good sir. People arent just going to become willing slaves for some greater good which seems to be thm all being slaves just because time has gone on. Human nature will always go on. The will to rebel will stay similar, although they might be oppressed enough to delay it for a while, there still would be human nature... and human nature doesn't imply everyone willingly going to this... So so far youve thought of an oppressive communist state where everyones does what the government wants without choice, undergoed heavy brainwashing and as I have said, has horrible quality of life. Can you prov the advantage over a capitalist society?
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Post by ganondorfchampin on Aug 20, 2011 17:16:11 GMT
Ok, humans are retarded selfish hedonistic bastards and utopian societies won't work because of that, discussion closed.
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Post by Qwerty on Aug 20, 2011 23:24:14 GMT
That's exactly the point we were trying to make.
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Post by GloveParty on Aug 21, 2011 1:27:19 GMT
...Chainsaw defense! Also, it's not retarded, hedonistic, selfish, and being a bastard to not to want to become a slave.
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Post by ganondorfchampin on Aug 21, 2011 2:30:05 GMT
Its not being a slave, it serving the community. Forced labor and slavery are two different things.
The reason it's all of those is because of game theory's hawks and doves. If you all just worked together everything would be better for everyone, but people are selfish and want the best for themselves, at everyones expense.
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Post by Qwerty on Aug 21, 2011 19:13:28 GMT
So, try making a system that's actually compatible with humanity and maybe I'll consider your viewpoint. Until that time, money should certainly exist.
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Post by D_M-01 on Apr 12, 2012 20:25:20 GMT
Money should exist. So many complications would occur in situations such as deciding how much sheep a new car is worth.
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Post by GloveParty on Apr 12, 2012 23:11:39 GMT
Money should exist. So many complications would occur in situations such as deciding how much sheep a new car is worth. The thread was dead.
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Post by Qwerty on Apr 14, 2012 5:08:11 GMT
Debate threads are always open to new input.
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Post by ganondorfchampin on Apr 14, 2012 13:58:25 GMT
Money should exist. So many complications would occur in situations such as deciding how much sheep a new car is worth. Why must a car be worth so many sheep? Nothing has a fixed value, we all want and need different things.
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Post by Artifact123 on Apr 14, 2012 15:30:01 GMT
Ok, humans are retarded selfish hedonistic bastards and utopian societies won't work because of that, discussion closed. This is true. I'm now gonna make a post about how humanity will go back to 10000 BC in a few hundred years.
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Post by GloveParty on Apr 14, 2012 23:46:50 GMT
Money should exist. So many complications would occur in situations such as deciding how much sheep a new car is worth. Why must a car be worth so many sheep? Nothing has a fixed value, we all want and need different things. It doesn't have to be worth so many sheep. But naturally, everyone wants the best deal for themselves, and I don't blame them. Combine that with my friend supply and demand, and with the many, many other aspects of economics, and you begin to see why products coagulate at around a certain price in the market, if temporarily, due to supply and demand. (In other words, the less there is and the more people want it the more it will cost.) Forced labor and slavery are two different things. Explain. Forced labor is the definition of slavery, is it not? You don't have to live with the people you're being forced to work by. Similarly, you don't need an environment of dominance for it to b slavery.
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Post by clockwork on Aug 17, 2012 19:24:42 GMT
Money should exist, it should just be generally equal amounts for everybody... But the harder workers should get more.
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Post by Qwerty on Aug 17, 2012 19:56:58 GMT
So, communism then?
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Post by Alonso on Aug 18, 2012 0:23:04 GMT
Sounds like communism to me as well. Anyway, it would never work in the long term globally, especially at this stage in history.
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Post by zelkova on Aug 20, 2012 13:32:57 GMT
Communism is perfect on paper but corrupted in life.
I wish life was more like the start of Mother 3. I surprise we haven't move away from physical bills by now and start using virtual cash.
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Post by Qwerty on Aug 21, 2012 0:36:34 GMT
We have. Come on, when do adults frequently use cash for most of their transactions? They almost never do, unless they're gambling or buying gas. It's almost entirely done via credit and debit cards now.
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Post by zelkova on Aug 21, 2012 14:34:58 GMT
Not in my town. Old people sometimes use bills. So freaking slow.
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Post by clockwork on Aug 28, 2012 23:44:12 GMT
yeah, we should just get rid of paper entirely and use credit cards, would be better imo
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Post by Qwerty on Aug 28, 2012 23:53:30 GMT
Of course, then credit card companies control 100% of the money and vending machines have to be modified. Importance not in that order.
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Post by Alonso on Aug 29, 2012 6:18:41 GMT
Don't do that, I collect coins, of you get rid of notes then you would have to get rid of coins, from what you are saying.
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Post by Qwerty on Aug 29, 2012 6:27:22 GMT
Not necessarily. coin collections would only become more valuable. The switch would no doubt keep currency with value, and in fact the value of paper currency would only increase as supply decreases. Not the value of money, mind you. Just paper currency.
I also like how this conversation has shifted from being about money in general to only physical forms of money.
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Post by clockwork on Sept 5, 2012 17:58:10 GMT
Of course, then credit card companies control 100% of the money and vending machines have to be modified. Importance not in that order. Well I'm sure we'd have to come up with some kind of system... maybe a global company, or a separate thing similar to credit but ran solely by the government not individual companies.
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Post by Qwerty on Sept 5, 2012 23:46:29 GMT
Even so, digital systems are more easily modified than simple, paper currency. It'd be more secure, it's just inconvenient for certain things.
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Post by HueHuey on Sept 6, 2012 9:02:36 GMT
Well nobody can hack paper, and for the first question, money is only here to save time in the process of trading items, services, knowledge.
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Post by Qwerty on Sept 6, 2012 15:50:57 GMT
Oh yes, people can hack paper. Counterfeiters are everywhere, and it's really hard to avoid them.
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LMeire
Newbie
Something has gone horribly wrong.
Posts: 5
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Post by LMeire on Jan 5, 2014 7:44:38 GMT
It's a good stand-in for actual time and resources, which is all it's supposed to represent anyway. I'd say that money (regardless of forms taken) is beneficial to any society that can keep it flowing between producers and consumers.
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Post by Clockwork on May 20, 2014 22:49:43 GMT
Money is inherently evil because it is the most common form of greed. It's safe to say most people in the civilized world would like more money. People want money because you can buy things. What happens when you're allocating jobs overseas and paying your workers squat because they have no one else to work for. Then the people you took the jobs away from are jobless. It's an overdone topic anyways, but money is really what motivates corrupt politicians. It motivates gangs and thugs. It motivates drug cartels. It motivates the working man as well, and it can lead an honest man to deplorable character.
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LMeire
Newbie
Something has gone horribly wrong.
Posts: 5
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Post by LMeire on Nov 26, 2014 4:15:05 GMT
Money is also the motivation of doctors, engineers, and literally everyone else that's ever wanted something they couldn't make themselves. By assigning a set value to goods and services, societies as a whole are stabilized because it's not nearly as easy to cheat someone out of their fair share as it would be a a barter/haggle system. People are going to cheat one another whether they do it with coins or oranges, that's the fault of a bad situation, not the means.
Also, I never saw how greed is supposed to be inherently evil, isn't the desire to have more than what you started with one of the main driving forces behind helpful technologies like agriculture and mining?
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Post by Qwerty on Nov 26, 2014 11:31:41 GMT
Wow, a post here. Never thought I'd see that again.
Anyway, money doesn't really lead to greed. Money is simply a quantifiable way to justify the exchanges we'd still be making anyway. If it wasn't dollars, it'd be wheat, or shiny stones, or whatever. People want resources, and money provides a convenient way of exchanging them.
That said, I should probably not continue talking here. This place died awhile ago, it should really stay dead.
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