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Post by microfarad on Feb 20, 2013 7:46:59 GMT
I have an idea for how immortality is achievable. It is not especially novel or different from some previously conceived mechanisms for cheating death, but I do have a few ideas which depart somewhat from these previous notions. To oversimplify, the process would involve downloading a copy of the brain before death and then emulating its behavior. This brings up multiple questions such as whether downloading the brain is actually possible, whether the emulated copy is actually a way to cheat death or if it's simply a way to make a good copy, and what life would be like after death of the corporeal form. My idea addresses all of these problems, and more. The short answer to these questions is as follows. I believe a form of brain downloading would be possible, even without detailed scans of the brain or destructive scanning (slicing the brain in thin layers to determine its structure), which I find risky and obviously immoral. I believe I have also determined a mechanism by which the emulated copy would be a continuation of the individual's life, not simply a new copy of that life. I also have a notion of what life would be like after death.
Here are some key aspects of my thinking:
I believe it is possible to achieve certain transhumanist goals, particularly cheating death and achieving a posthuman condition.
My philosophy of consciousness caters mostly to a mechanistic view, but I do not ignore the importance of vitalism as well.
I base most of my approach on methodological reductionism, but not to the point that the problem of brain emulation is reduced to perfect emulation of physical reality, which is unfeasible given current and likely future technology.
To say much more would be to give away my approach to the problem. If you're interested, E-mail me. micro.farad2@gmail.com
This isn't science fiction. There's a good possibility that this kind of technology will be available in our lifetimes. Researchers have already used destructive scanning on half of a rat's brain and accurately emulated it in a computer. As technology becomes more powerful and less expensive, the only barriers left will be discovering how the brain works, how to emulate it, and how to download it. My approach solves the last of those barriers while largely minimizing the first.
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Post by Qwerty on Feb 20, 2013 22:55:41 GMT
Main problem with this sort of approach seems to be philosophical issues, eg, whether the computer brain is really "you", etc.
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Post by microfarad on Feb 21, 2013 6:50:50 GMT
Then I can explain how I solve this problem. Send me a message, I'll E-mail you back with the details.
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Post by Artifact123 on Feb 21, 2013 20:58:42 GMT
Seems interesting, I read it quick and don't understand most of it but whatever. You wouldn't actually still be realizing anything it's simply a copy of you, you're not it.
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Post by D_M-01 on Feb 21, 2013 23:15:53 GMT
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Post by microfarad on Feb 22, 2013 7:40:32 GMT
Review the following statement from my first post: "My philosophy of consciousness caters mostly to a mechanistic view, but I do not ignore the importance of vitalism as well."
Mechanistic views say that if you replicate the function of a person, you have made them immortal, undying. Mechanistic views are obviously lacking, which is where vitalism comes in. Vitalism holds that there is something else that makes a person a person, although it can be difficult to put your finger on what that is. I say that this intrinsic property is consciousness. If your brain proceeds to function as it does uninterrupted for your entire life, you are still you. Even when you are "unconscious", your brain is still working. If you make a copy of the brain, that is not "you". I realize this, and have solved the problem using a process which transfers consciousness. Your biological brain must necessarily die in the process, so this only works if your death is anticipated.
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Post by Qwerty on Feb 22, 2013 17:25:55 GMT
Or if you're willing to die to become immortal.
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Post by D_M-01 on Feb 22, 2013 21:59:37 GMT
It would be more viable to have nanobots slowly replace your brain cells but fast enough to completely replace the brain cells over the course of a relatively short period. Consciousness is theoretically retained and since the brain has become completely synthetic it could also be easily uploaded.
What I believe I gained from reading your argument is that you have a linear view of consciousness (in other words, consciousness can be lost and then regained or a person can be deconstructed then reconstructed into the exact same person and be the exact same "person" in terms of consciousness). This view is neither correct nor incorrect. We'd have to evaluate the situation as well as the person with the Swampman Theory.
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Post by microfarad on Feb 23, 2013 6:10:33 GMT
Your perception is incorrect. My process would be very similar to your nanobot situation, except no brain cells are physically replaced.
Edit: Since the bulk of my idea is not how consciousness is retained, but rather how you copy the brain in the first place, I will divulge my solution. After you have a functioning copy of the brain in a computer, you set up a feedback loop between the computer and the brain. The brain's signals reinforce virtual signals in the computer, and the emulated brain reinforces signals in the biological brain. This could be achieved with various technologies. I don't believe the resolution is critical, i.e. the activities in each brain, biological and emulated, must only be sufficiently similar, not identical. Any idea the emulated brain has will be expressed in the biological brain and any idea the biological brain has will be expressed in the emulated brain. As your biological brain dies, the influence of it on the system becomes less important, perhaps incoherent and chaotic, until only the emulated brain is left. Consciousness, as I see it, has been transferred.
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Post by D_M-01 on Feb 24, 2013 3:43:23 GMT
If the emulated brain expresses ideas in the biological brain, wouldn't that cause incoherence for the person undergoing to process?
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Post by microfarad on Feb 27, 2013 0:46:23 GMT
It would probably be pretty darn confusing.
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Post by Qwerty on Feb 27, 2013 7:49:27 GMT
But in this situation wouldn't you only remember / live based off of experiences formed after the process has started?
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Post by microfarad on Feb 27, 2013 18:01:45 GMT
No, because the emulated brain is formed from a copy of your biological brain before this consciousness transfer process.
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Post by endy123 on Mar 1, 2013 2:42:21 GMT
I was thinking you could rig up some basic 1 way telepathy.
It'd be crude with present technology but you can both send and receive information directly to/from the brain.
Not sure how similar the new brain would be to your own, but at some level it would be receiving your thoughts.
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Post by Qwerty on Mar 1, 2013 6:59:18 GMT
Actually, I just remembered a sci-fi short story I read awhile ago that was basically this idea exactly. Lemme try to find it... Ah, yes, this one. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_Me_Joe
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Post by monokr0me on Mar 22, 2013 7:34:55 GMT
The main problem I see is that such a copy would be nigh impossible to produce; the majority of one's character comes from memories. Memories are very elusive to scientists, and in truth we know little of how they are stored and managed by the brain. However, we do know the rudimentary structure of how stimuli enters and shapes the brain. As stimuli, such as sight, smell, and touch, send signals to the brain, these signals follow neural pathways. However, common combinations of stimuli will create new pathways to lead to more efficient parsing of the information, and this is evident in functions such as muscle memory and Pavlovian conditioning. However memories are stored, pathways form in a similar way to link memories with common subjects together, giving us the ability of association. As soon as the brain dies, the neuron pathways begin degrading and memory detail is lost at an exponential rate. This means that you would have to somehow copy the brain while it was living, which means it would also be constantly forming new pathways during the procedure. To copy it correctly, the clone would have to grow as it was being assembled, however it would be growing with incomplete memories and create invalid associations, which would create an infinite loop in the cloning process.
tl;dr This will never happen
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Post by Clockwork on May 20, 2014 23:10:27 GMT
Or you could just find a way to preserve yourself indefinitely. It solves the philosophical debate, since you preserve the mechanics of your consciousness (your brain) with the mumbo jumbo wumbo (spirit).
I really don't like the Mechanistic views, I don't think they actually solve the problem of achieving personal immortality, only perceived immortality. An answer that solves both conundrums would be ideal, since I don't want to leave my eternal life to Russian Roulette, and instead end up with a perfect clone of myself.
A little thought-provoking mind exercise would be to make a complete replica of yourself, and then have it exist simultaneously. Intuition would say that you would not be consciously controlling this foreign body, but would observe it like you would any other person.
The only other answer is to be conscious in two identical but distinct bodies. I don't even want to think about how that answer would make any sense.
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Post by Skribbblie on Jun 8, 2015 22:18:30 GMT
tl;dr Not possible, just die and be immortalized by some scientific theory you named for yourself.
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