Regarding the creation of a new forum

[monokr0me]

Foreword
First of all, I'd like to say a few things. To begin, do not reply unless you have read this entire essay. This will prevent ignorant remarks and irrational reasoning. Second of all, please add a reason behind every one of your counters. I am fine with your disagreements, but not if you don't give a valid reason. Finally, please realize this isn't for the community as it is, but promoting growth and ease-of-use for new members and guests. Another thing to mention is that, this is mainly an experiment; There will be no obligation to move unless our community completely accepts the prototype forum that will be up soon. Thank you, and please digest the following essay thoroughly before replying.

---

Many members know that Chronologik, otherwise known as James, has proposed the creation of a new forum software specifically tailored for our forum. Along with a more flexible layout and easier navigation, there will be some changes that have become a controversial topic. This is an essay about why these are being implemented and the logic behind it.

Let us first begin on a lighter note: the addition of features. One of my personal favorite additions is the Post Like System. When users see a post with content they particularly like or enjoy, they can click a small button and instantly add a 'Like' to it, similar to things like Facebook. There would then be a link in the forum similar to 'Popular Threads'' where users can find threads that many users have enjoyed. Another new change would be the Admin Blog. Here, the administration could post Important announcements, contests, or even particularly interesting threads. This would help users see whats up in the forum without having to visit several different boards, with no visible downsides. Another cool feature would be the simplified board system: We would have a small amount of boards: General, Forum Games, Dan-Ball Discussion, Support, Artsy, and the Admin Blog. Now, you may think 'But, there's too many different threads for the Dan-Ball games to be in one board!', well hear this: users will be able to add a 'category' to their new thread. Then, when looking for new posts, users can select from a list 'All, Stick-Ranger, Powder Game, Uploads, etc. and be able to view only the posts they want to see. There would be a similar system in most boards. This will also help streamline the support board and help staff to fill out requests more quickly, by changing the thread filter to 'solved' when the user has been assisted. I personally believe that these changes will help our forum greatly, and I hope you will be able to see why.

Now its time to discuss the more controversial changes. The first of which would be the removal of Colored names, Custom stars, and Custom Titles. The main reason for this is that, often times, the colors/images the user selects can be annoying and/or clash with the skin. Custom Member boards will also be removed, as they are usually redundant and inactive. Also note that the karma system will not be implemented: The Post Like system will be far less exploitable and more relevant to the forum experience without having an indicator in the users' own profile that others may not like them, something nobody wants. The next, and most controversial of all changes, is the removal of Dan-Balls. The first reason of doing so is that it promotes quality posting. Many users post irrelevantly or redundantly in many threads simply to boost their Dan-Balls, and this is oftentimes annoying and can lead the user to being warned, which can be harsh to new members. Now, users may ask, "But what if I want to have a shop?". The answer here is that you still can: simply making images for users, and having them wear it around the forum, should be reward enough for you. You can even require them to link back to your request thread so that you get even more requests. This, again, helps promote quality graphic production and less thread spam simply to earn more Dan-Balls. These changes may seem harsh and crazy, but you must realize that these things may seem complex and strange to a new member, as seen by multiple help topics.

Lastly, I wish to end on a lighter scale of things. The badge system will be integrated as a form of 'achievements'. Instead of having them in their signature,the badges will be redone as smaller images. The users' most recent four badges will be displayed in their miniprofile, and their will also be a link to open a pop-up window that displays all of their earned badges. Each badge will display its name and reason for being earned when rolled over with the mouse. Finally, we will also be getting our own URL; something like danballforums.com. These changes will be welcome and intuitive for new members, allowing easier advertisement.

---

I hope you understand what these changes will be implemented for. However, if you disagree, please do so politely, and explain in a constructive way why you think a change will not work, and, if possible, explain a better approach to the problem. You may also feel free to post your support here. Please, however, do not start a flame war over this; James and I only wish this community the best, and we wholeheartedly wish to see it grow. All of these changes I mentioned, we believe will do nothing but help our growth. We do not want to hurt this community in any way.

[GloveParty]

Well first of all, I want my stars and names, and I like the danballs system. I like danball shops, so one actually has to post to get images. And I am perfectly fine with the system we have now, I certainly don't want to deal with moving again.

[monokr0me]

Jun 16, 2011 1:12:16 GMT GloveParty said:

Well first of all, I want my stars and names, and I like the danballs system. I like danball shops, so one actually has to post to get images. And I am perfectly fine with the system we have now, I certainly don't want to deal with moving again.

I'm afraid you just completely ignored my foreword; Please mention why you think these things should stay and give a valid reason why the pros outweigh the cons.
And I must mention that this move won't be an unorganized rebellion, we will have several weeks notice, and a popup window at the old forums once we move stating we have moved and where we went. It won't be nearly as much hassle and disorganization as when we revolted against our former admin, TheListo.

[GloveParty]

I'm afraid I did not. I'm afraid my reasons are right there.

[monokr0me]

"I like the Dan-ball system" Is not a valid counter to all the reasons I have given against it. So, begging your pardon, I would like you to reword the aforementioned statement.

[James]

Just another point I'd like to say, with the addition of a post "liking" system, this should get rid useless posts like "I agree." It gives the readers an easier and less spammy way to respond to a post, and it gives the poster a more intrinsic sense of motivation to make clever or amiable posts.

[D_M-01]

Although these ideas are great in ideology, for some reason I just feel this is too much for the community to handle at one time.

Albeit, originally I did support this movement, but now that I think of it, I wonder if it is worth the risk of the split and/or loss of the entire community here. Sure, if we were to implement this "new software", we could see a great difference in terms of user activity and forum visitation, but I feel that by moving into this direction we are slowly losing our originality and becoming a more generalized forum. Of course, it sounds like an excellent and well-thought out idea, but when it's an entire community at stake, it brings into question as to who we are as a forum. Are we merely a site that wants to gain activity through the implementation of this new software in an effort to make the forum more user-accessible? Do we want to remove the things that make us who we are in order to appeal to a broader audience. When I ask who we are as a forum, I realize why we are here.

This forum, originally, was made by a group of friends who wanted to share something they thought was great. Still today, I feel that this is a forum that has been founded on a community friendship. Sure, we see members come and go, but is it absolutely necessary to produce and increase activity? I am not saying that an increase in activity is a bad thing, nor am I saying that if the forum were to eventually die it would be good either. I am saying that as a member of the Dan-Ball Forum, I do not like the thought of losing friends whom I have known for quite some time over such a change. And yes, perhaps we are a private community, made by friends to discuss the things we love and like to do, but is that wrong of us on our part?

In this sense, I realize how close of a community we are when we talk to each other. That is why the active users here come regularly, not just to talk about Dan-Ball Games, but to meet and talk to the people of this forum. Will the forum eventually die? Maybe, but it is not a question of whether we want it to happen or not. It is a question of whether it might be inevitable.

[monokr0me]

Jun 16, 2011 1:23:36 GMT D_M-01 said:

Although these ideas are great in ideology, for some reason I just feel this is too much for the community to handle at one time.

Albeit, originally I did support this movement, but now that I think of it, I wonder if it is worth the risk of the split and/or loss of the entire community here. Sure, if we were to implement this "new software", we could see a great difference in terms of user activity and forum visitation, but I feel that by moving into this direction we are slowly losing our originality and becoming a more generalized forum. Of course, it sounds like an excellent and well-thought out idea, but when it's an entire community at stake, it brings into question as to who we are as a forum. Are we merely a site that wants to gain activity through the implementation of this new software in an effort to make the forum more user-accessible? Do we want to remove the things that make us who we are in order to appeal to a broader audience. When I ask who we are as a forum, I realize why we are here.

This forum, originally, was made by a group of friends who wanted to share something they thought was great. Still today, I feel that this is a forum that has been founded on a community friendship. Sure, we see members come and go, but is it absolutely necessary to produce and increase activity? I am not saying that an increase in activity is a bad thing, nor am I saying that if the forum were to eventually die it would be good either. I am saying that as a member of the Dan-Ball Forum, I do not like the thought of losing friends whom I have known for quite some time over such a change. And yes, perhaps we are a private community, made by friends to discuss the things we love and like to do, but is that wrong of us on our part?

In this sense, I realize how close of a community we are when we talk to each other. That is why the active users here come regularly, not just to talk about Dan-Ball Games, but to meet and talk to the people of this forum. Will the forum eventually die? Maybe, but it is not a question of whether we want it to happen or not. It is a question of whether it might be inevitable.

I understand where you are coming from, however keep in mind we will give our current community plenty of time to experiment with the new site before we decide to make the move or not. I feel that, as long as we have the entire communities support on this, there can only be forward progression. This is why I am trying to explain this; some of our members are disagreeing because they don't realize what the removal of features encompasses and why it may be necessary.

[Qwerty]

Mono, the reason the move against TheListo worked was NOT organization. Organization doesn't factor into it (well, it does, but not much relatively speaking). Listo organized his moves lots and lots before they were enacted and they still failed.

What is necessary for a move is practically unanimous community approval, something you noticeably lack. We couldn't move even if we wanted to unless Chrono makes something extremely impressive that has us all change our minds.

[D_M-01]

The problem with this idea is that even if you allow users to experiment with the move, there are still those who will bluntly refuse no matter what you say, which will in turn cause even more turmoil.

[James]

Mech, I actually agree with you on that one. The change to an experimental new software is soley as a means of keeping the forum alive. At the moment, the current forum is built on sentimental value. Not to say that's wrong, but I've been on here since 2008 and I've seen the forum grow into what it is now.

The reason why I'm proposing this change is because I'm getting the feeling that the forum is now way past it's prime. The quirks that made the forum unique are now the same quirks that make the forum very uninviting for new members, simply because there's so much "history" behind it. What I'm proposing with the new forum prototype is a way to keep the forum alive as the internet evolves. It's inevitable that the community is going to grow older, and the internet is going to constantly change.

Essentially, in my personal opinion (no, I'm not trying to state some sort of objective truth here) this forum has lived out it's life in it's current state, and is starting to die now. Or at least it's barely hanging on. If a major change isn't done, activity will simply become stagnant. That's how a lot of great forums I used to be active on died, and it's happening to lots of forums.

--back to the point--

Pretty much, this change is a major shift in paradigms. It's creating a new environment where the site is more inviting to new members and simpler to navigate. Unfortunately the only way for this to be done is to give up all of the old quirks behind the site. Essentially replacing an old car with a new one, you may love your old car and have a lot of sentimental attachment, but it's not going to last forever. If there were a valid middleground, then the changes would be much more practical, but unfortunately there is no viable middleground. That would simply kill any chances of scalability, and both increase the amounts of members leaving, without having a significant on the amounts of members joining. The fact of the matter is the changes required will be incredibly controversial, that's the only viable option other than keeping things the way they are.

Regardless, I'd like to remind everyone that the changes aren't imposed. It's a prototype I'm developing because I'm developing forum software anyways. If in the end the community does chose to stick to it's sentiments, then that's fine, but I still think that users should try the prototype when it's finished and consider for themselves if it's worth the changes.

Also, I promise I'll add a little "-->" in the footer. It's just an extra three bytes, and it won't be in the way.

[GloveParty]

Like me for example. I just don't want to move.

[Draxorion]

I do agree with this proposal, and support it even if it is confirmed not to be done. Even if the change can be done, we need the support of many of our other members in order for it to happen. With the right technology provided, and a great opportunity placed before us, do we simply deny it? We should try it, and see if it works. If not, then so be it. What if the community splits in two, and they both choose sides? Well then, we will try again...

[droctagonapus]

well if its an expeirement, why not?
I don't see what possible harm an opt-in experiment could cause.(ok, this isnt actually true, I don't see what likely harm it could cause)
about dan balls:
a/b testing anyone?
also, I think your argument for removing it is at least partially flawed. In general, a currency is not used to obtain a job, but rather in order to be able to assign a job to someone else in exchange for doing a job. I mean sure, it would be great if all stores and company employees did what they did because they wanted too, but do you think thats really the case for everyone? Of course not! If this was the case for everyone, do you think currency would continue to exist? I doubt it.
As you may notice, I don't have many dan-balls. I don't post much. I mainly lurk and use the chat. That isnt to say I never competitively use the points system. In fact I use the one on another forum quite often. But here, I personally would not care if dan-balls were removed, because I Personally dont use them.

Really, this is something that should be tested with the experiment.
on the like button:+1
On the category system:
this would be neat, but really you could go either way with this. you could have the usenet approach(I have never actually used usenet, but w/e, I know it has stuff like alt.binaries.series.season.episode or whatever)
and then there is the respond to approach, with lots of indenting, which could allow for as many subforums as needed.
then there is the tag approach you are suggesting.
then there is the standard few subforums approach.

I think these are all valid approaches.

achievements : achievement get!:good idea!

was there anything else to comment on?

[D_M-01]

Jun 16, 2011 1:38:16 GMT @James said:

Mech, I actually agree with you on that one. The change to an experimental new software is soley as a means of keeping the forum alive. At the moment, the current forum is built on sentimental value. Not to say that's wrong, but I've been on here since 2008 and I've seen the forum grow into what it is now.

The reason why I'm proposing this change is because I'm getting the feeling that the forum is now way past it's prime. The quirks that made the forum unique are now the same quirks that make the forum very uninviting for new members, simply because there's so much "history" behind it. What I'm proposing with the new forum prototype is a way to keep the forum alive as the internet evolves. It's inevitable that the community is going to grow older, and the internet is going to constantly change.

Essentially, in my personal opinion (no, I'm not trying to state some sort of objective truth here) this forum has lived out it's life in it's current state, and is starting to die now. Or at least it's barely hanging on. If a major change isn't done, activity will simply become stagnant. That's how a lot of great forums I used to be active on died, and it's happening to lots of forums.

--back to the point--

Pretty much, this change is a major shift in paradigms. It's creating a new environment where the site is more inviting to new members and simpler to navigate. Unfortunately the only way for this to be done is to give up all of the old quirks behind the site. Essentially replacing an old car with a new one, you may love your old car and have a lot of sentimental attachment, but it's not going to last forever. If there were a valid middleground, then the changes would be much more practical, but unfortunately there is no viable middleground. That would simply kill any chances of scalability, and both increase the amounts of members leaving, without having a significant on the amounts of members joining. The fact of the matter is the changes required will be incredibly controversial, that's the only viable option other than keeping things the way they are.

Regardless, I'd like to remind everyone that the changes aren't imposed. It's a prototype I'm developing because I'm developing forum software anyways. If in the end the community does chose to stick to it's sentiments, then that's fine, but I still think that users should try the prototype when it's finished and consider for themselves if it's worth the changes.

Also, I promise I'll add a little "-->" in the footer. It's just an extra three bytes, and it won't be in the way.

I understand what you are trying to do here, and I am greatly thankful for you efforts. I agree that as the forum has aged, the software eventually becomes obsolete, and tends to become uninviting for new members. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to move an entire community onto new forum software, if at all. But, now that you have clarified that this project is merely going to be a prototype and i not intended to fully replace the forum, as well as the fact that you are willingly letting users test out the new software, I support your attempts.

However, the question still remains if the forum community favors personal friendship and sentimental value over cooperating with the new. To me, it appears to be the first thought.

[Rock]

Jun 16, 2011 1:36:57 GMT D_M-01 said:

The problem with this idea is that even if you allow users to experiment with the move, there are still those who will bluntly refuse no matter what you say, which will in turn cause even more turmoil.

That would be me. The only positive thing I've seen so far about this is the "Like" feature, which isn't all that impressing. Now ask yourself this: Is having our own website and a "Like" feature really worth losing the shop, the currency, the karma, the custom names, the custom stars, and the member boards. For me the advantage seems to be here.

[Qwerty]

The problem with this is that it is, by its very nature, impossible unless it is unanimously liked.

[James]

I think the problem here is that users see the removal of features just for the purpose of the removal of features.

In general, anything that's removed is going to be removed because they advantages they offer isn't worth the extra complication they add to the site. The general paradigm for anything even remotely associated to design (be it engineering, web design, product design, etc.) is: KISS.
Keep It Simple Stupid (by the way, the "stupid" is actually a mistranslation and means idiot-proof). Any new feature you add is another feature that needs to be learned, more information for the user to process, and more complication to the interface. The removal of custom name colours and stars seems to get a lot of support, because they don't actually offer much.

I can understand the major controversy over the removal of shops though. The way I see it (and your opinions are welcome too, as long as they're reasoned) is that any kind of service offered should be more informal. Having these formal shops set up seems too complicated. If you're going to offer a service, offer it for free. For example, in the new forum, there will be a creativity board where you are welcome to request graphics or other creative works from the community. If you honestly think you're good enough to deserve some compensation for your work, then you should be working for real money. That you should be able to organize by myself. Working for an extrinsic goal such as marks in school, or in this case "dan-balls" on the forum, decreases your motivation, and work quality, especially with anything creative. If you're not doing it for fun or because you want to, why would you do it fors dan-balls?

I would be okay with implementing an alternative reputation system if somebody has a decent and seamless suggestion for it.

[endy123]

I just don't really see a compelling reason at the moment.

normally it's problems the forum owner is having that cause moves, from what I've seen anyways.

[GloveParty]

I don't see people posting for DBs just saying.

[D_M-01]

Jun 16, 2011 1:59:15 GMT @James said:

I think the problem here is that users see the removal of features just for the purpose of the removal of features.

In general, anything that's removed is going to be removed because they advantages they offer isn't worth the extra complication they add to the site. The general paradigm for anything even remotely associated to design (be it engineering, web design, product design, etc.) is: KISS.
Keep It Simple Stupid (by the way, the "stupid" is actually a mistranslation and means idiot-proof). Any new feature you add is another feature that needs to be learned, more information for the user to process, and more complication to the interface. The removal of custom name colours and stars seems to get a lot of support, because they don't actually offer much.

I can understand the major controversy over the removal of shops though. The way I see it (and your opinions are welcome too, as long as they're reasoned) is that any kind of service offered should be more informal. Having these formal shops set up seems too complicated. If you're going to offer a service, offer it for free. For example, in the new forum, there will be a creativity board where you are welcome to request graphics or other creative works from the community. If you honestly think you're good enough to deserve some compensation for your work, then you should be working for real money. That you should be able to organize by myself. Working for an extrinsic goal such as marks in school, or in this case "dan-balls" on the forum, decreases your motivation, and work quality, especially with anything creative. If you're not doing it for fun or because you want to, why would you do it fors dan-balls?

I would be okay with implementing an alternative reputation system if somebody has a decent and seamless suggestion for it.

I agree when it comes to many of the unnecessary features like Karma or Custom stars, but I feel that a major problem in not having shops is that most of the time users who create things for other users expect some sort of compensation. I doubt that many will work for free when it comes to making custom images (I.E. signatures, avatars). We have the shop so that users who may not be necessarily good at graphic artistry be able to request a certain piece they are seeking. I don't think they would expect someone to make it for them for free. That, unfortunately, is not how the world tends to work.

[Phantom Zero]

I likw this Idea I really do, But I'm with Kurai here, I have memories of this place... I do understand that we must move on and gain new members. To be honest, after a little thinking, I'm for this. We need to move on....

(PS: I had like 10 minutes to think between "Memories" and "To be honest")

[FoxtrotZero]

Well, I was originally stagnantly opposed to this, but that was because nobody had offered me a full understanding of the proposes, and I was locked in a bit of a personal disagreement between Chrono/Mono and myself.

I can deal with most of these changes. There are several finer points on which I refuse to move. The first one is things like custom name colors, titles, stars, etc. Its a deep rooted part of this forum and its culture. I can't give an objective reason for keeping them, but I think the objective reason for getting rid of them is a bit unfounded. Sure, other people might not like them, but they're a badge of personality, of customization. I think getting rid of such a small yet personal thing is going too far. Its alot easier to put limits on these, such as the size of your stars or the banning of image names.

The other is badges. The achievement system is one thing I can deal with, but its a different thing to have it automatically included in your miniprofile. I think it would be a little clunky to have in the miniprofile, and people wear badges more as a point of honor than because it represents one as being better than another; in a sense, by including the achievement-badge system, you're bringing back the problem that you got rid of Dan-Balls to fix; pointless posts for a number (obviously dependant on what sorts of badges you include). Theres also my previous argument of customization; some people don't like to display badges. Some people like to display ALL their badges. Some people, like me, only want to display a set amount of badges. Badges are, again, a deep rooted tradition of this forum, and like the aforementioned names, titles, colors, stars, etc., one that we can afford to keep throughout a ring of earthshaking changes.


I also want to address this:

Jun 16, 2011 1:31:30 GMT Qwerty said:

Mono, the reason the move against TheListo worked was NOT organization. Organization doesn't factor into it (well, it does, but not much relatively speaking). Listo organized his moves lots and lots before they were enacted and they still failed.

What is necessary for a move is practically unanimous community approval, something you noticeably lack. We couldn't move even if we wanted to unless Chrono makes something extremely impressive that has us all change our minds.

This is, more or less, completely irrelevant at this point in time. Notice the key words. We're not yet proposing anything drastic. We're proposing to create an alternative and to run it parallel for a while. People, myself included, have been generalizing for their cause, and nobody has yet taken an accurate measure of approval for or against this set of concepts (which is, more or less, the point of this thread, to gauge community reaction and iron out wrinkles). A final vote is something to be taken later, when the time is right, not now. You're putting the cart before the horse, Qwerty. Mono and Chrono have managed to be very civil and agreeable in presenting their plans and solutions, and even I have lowered my metaphorical shotgun. So sooner or later, you're going to have to get your head out of your ass and be civil too, because i'm pretty sure you're doing the same thing you always do; I'm not intending to insult you personally, but you have a habit of making your mind up on something and refusing to listen to people about it, and thats not a good thing for someone with as much power on this forum as you.

[D_M-01]

Jun 16, 2011 2:13:22 GMT FoxtrotZero said:

Well, I was originally stagnantly opposed to this, but that was because nobody had offered me a full understanding of the proposes, and I was locked in a bit of a personal disagreement between Chrono/MonYou're putting the cart before the horse, Qwerty. Mono and Chrono have managed to be very civil and agreeable in presenting their plans and solutions, and even I have lowered my metaphorical shotgun. So sooner or later, you're going to have to get your head out of your ass and be civil too, because i'm pretty sure you're doing the same thing you always do; I'm not intending to insult you personally, but you have a habit of making your mind up on something and refusing to listen to people about it, and thats not a good thing for someone with as much power on this forum as you.

I would have to agree specifically with this statement.

I would also have to agree with Fox with the other statements he had made.

[disabled]

I think Proboards provide a very shitty forum. With the current H/F its also damn slow and there are many reasons to move the forum and run it on a real forum software.
But I don't like the idea to use some self written software. I don't know your skills, but many people contribute to big forum software packages and add features and fix security holes that you alone can't match. Also what happens if you ever loose interest in the forum? Who will fix security holes and stuff like that then? Also there is free software out there that have all that you say plus currencies and much more.
Actually I am for removing stuff like DBs, colored names (name changes altogether) and much more, but the people seem to like all that shit, so I think "the folks like it" is an argument for something.
Also where do you plan to host that forum? That would be another reason against it, I assume you run the server, that means you are the Administrator of the forum. Now think about how Rock/Qwerty/... will think about it?

On a sidenote, I think the last move showed that moving is possible. The move before by Listo was just executed very stupidly and people didn't understand why it happened. I actually thought someone found an XSS security hole in the old forum and tried to trick people into using the new one. (But that was before I knew how crappy you have to code Proboard forums.) If you a) lock the old forum b) give them a page on the old one where and why it moved c) make it easy to register on the new one, then I think all active members will move to the new one. If you run both forums in parallel (for more then a few days) the move will not work. Also to make the move easier, one can copy all the threads from the old forum and import them in the new one. (Although you have to write your own crawler as Proboards doesn't let you backup your Database.)

[GloveParty]

Guys, a forum move in and of itself is VERY drastic. Not to mention to a completely different host.

[Qwerty]

Sooo, Fox, you call telling me I have my head in my ass civil? I'm also trying to be civil. My only opinion here is that my opinion is useless unless it is unanimous. I'm sure they've presented their arguments very well, and I have read them. I simply don't have an opinion on them.

Your "callout" is based on a set of assumptions that are all incorrect. You assume I am opposed to the move: I am not. You assume I somehow think Mono and Chrono are being uncivil: I am not. You assume I have already consigned this plan to the scrap heap: I have not. You assume that I have an opinion: I do not. One thing I can say about you, however, is that you will take ANY opportunity to say I have my head up my ass. You don't even have the creativity to come up with another analogy. The sad thing is that I AGREE with your argument, but it's for some reason directly specifically against me.

[FoxtrotZero]

Jun 16, 2011 1:59:15 GMT @James said:

I think the problem here is that users see the removal of features just for the purpose of the removal of features.

In general, anything that's removed is going to be removed because they advantages they offer isn't worth the extra complication they add to the site. The general paradigm for anything even remotely associated to design (be it engineering, web design, product design, etc.) is: KISS.
Keep It Simple Stupid (by the way, the "stupid" is actually a mistranslation and means idiot-proof). Any new feature you add is another feature that needs to be learned, more information for the user to process, and more complication to the interface. The removal of custom name colours and stars seems to get a lot of support, because they don't actually offer much.

I wish to use this to backup my aforementioned arguement. If anything thats being removed is because its not worth the extra complication, explain to me the problem with things like name colors, custom stars, and custom titles? It doesn't actually create a problem. People can use it or ignore it. Why not add an option to display them all as default if you don't like other users' colors? (obviously for this to work, title changes will have to be purely cosmetic, and not change the actual name). If you think it creates a large impact on the opinion of new members, you can even extend this to be the default setting for people not logged in. No matter how you spin it, though, this doesn't work as a justification for your removal.

The same arguement works even better for my defence of badges as-they-are. I fail to see how the extra complication of a badge-ticker in your miniprofile is worthwhile. I've already explained why we should keep it, now I want to point out that I see your arguement for their removal as flawed. I've used your own logic against you, which means you're doing something wrong.

Jun 16, 2011 2:27:01 GMT Qwerty said:

Sooo, Fox, you call telling me I have my head in my ass civil? I'm also trying to be civil. My only opinion here is that my opinion is useless unless it is unanimous. I'm sure they've presented their arguments very well, and I have read them. I simply don't have an opinion on them.

Like I said, i'm not trying to offend you. I have... a unique, rough way with words.

[D_M-01]

Jun 16, 2011 2:27:01 GMT Qwerty said:

Sooo, Fox, you call telling me I have my head in my ass civil? I'm also trying to be civil. My only opinion here is that my opinion is useless unless it is unanimous. I'm sure they've presented their arguments very well, and I have read them. I simply don't have an opinion on them.

You're a forum administrator. Users expect you to have an opinion on the matter. You cannot just 'sit-out'. This is a decision that you and the other high staff, as well as the lower staff need to make amongst yourselves. Agreeing with the crowd does not contribute to anything.

[GloveParty]

So you're trying to force him to agree with someone? Doesn't work that way.